Ladies and gentlemen, I present the great minds behind the anti ripcord team.
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I honestly hope they never change it. 
Im not hand waving. I’m saying they shouldn’t exist, or should be planned around. That is the OPPOSITE of handwaving.
You’re handwaving them, by saying “oh well, they are just there, deal with it”. They are there because Blizzard isn’t fixing them. Not because they should be, or because they have to be.
Im not against pros and cons in choices. I’m against cons without pros. Im against choices that are designed to cause what Ion called “regretful moments”, which he described as almost necessary to make a choice feel meaningful; it isn’t.
If I had to choose between covenants for their art, story and general feel, it would be a choice without cons. I could make a choice, I would be locked to that choice, and it would be meaningful. I might be disappointed that I couldn’t pick multiple ones, but that is different from a regretful moment. Choosing between multiple good things is fine; that’s a GOOD meaningful choice.
Similarly, if I had to choose between abilities, and got locked into that choice, it would be meaningful. Most of the time, it would mean that I’m capable of reading a website, but sometimes it would mean that I don’t care about performance, or that multiple abilities are balanced enough that I can choose which one I enjoy the most. That is a good meaningful choice. I don’t get all the abilities, but I do get to pick the one I enjoy the most.
When these two things are combined, THAT is what makes the choice laden with regret. Because aesthetics, art, and story are intertwined with player power, and because Blizzard won’t or can’t balance the abilities and because I do care about player power, I cannot functionally choose the covenant I want to choose, because it doesn’t align with the player power that the Blizzard balance team has decided to assign to my spec and chosen gameplay. That is a choice that becomes regret-laden, and not more meaningful. The choice is absolutely less meaningful. I now have no investment at all into the covenant; I am forced into a covenant I have zero investment in because it contains the ability that is balanced the strongest. I can change it later, because Blizzard is forced to provide a means to do that, since they have tied player power to covenant, so my character is not representative of a specific covenant, but rather the current covenant containing player power.
I am not a “venthyr paladin”, I am a paladin who picked venthyr because its ability is stronger and when Blizzard rebalance tomorrow I’m sure I’ll be kyrian so why give a crap about venthyr when I won’t be venthyr tomorrow?
Separating covenants from player power is a win for EVERYONE.
- It lets everyone pick a covenant based on what they identify with the most. People will want to represent their chosen covenant.
- It lets Blizzard be MORE strict about “meaningful choice”, because they would not ever have to let people change covenant, and could lock power choice besides after a rebalance.
- It has no downside.
- It would not increase the capability for people to form groups based on covenants anymore than they will right now, because covenant powers will be as much or moreso locked than they are now.
Unlock player power from covenants. Let people actually play the game, rather than playing the abilities. Meaningful choices do not have to have regret to have weight.
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No one sane rerolled their entire character for legendaries.
That was a top 1% problem.
That is not a game design problem. That is a player problem.
[quote=“Aneris-stormrage, post:6564, topic:617401, full:true”]
History says it will be changed. Anytime the majority of the testing community’s feedback indicates a flaw in a system it eventually gets fixed in a later patch. Again looking over legion legendaries, azerite, corrupted gear. The precedent is set.
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None of those systems are Covenants.
None of those systems are even close to Covenants.
Also, you’re confused on what the word “majority” means. Because you guys are not the majority here…
Just because 99% didn’t try to solve it doesn’t mean there wasn’t a problem
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This system is currently being tested. Not just by 1%/streamers but also random casuals who won the beta lottery. We have a sample group. Looking the forums the number of those are in favor of the system is far out numbered by those against.
These are people who have always come out right.
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You’re right. Most people just stopped playing that character altogether and rerolled something else… or didn’t. Until they changed it.
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You do realize people come to the WoW forums to complain, right?
Hardly anyone comes here to be all “GOOO JOB BLIZZ! I LIKE THIS COVENANT SYSTEM THING YOU GOT GOING ON HERE!”
Look at ANY other form of media and there is a major diverse opinion on the system.
WoWhead, MMO-champ, Youtube comments, Reddit, Twitch stream chat.
Most people didn’t do that.
Nope.
You’re confused.
No no. No. I’m not.
Ummm… majorty of content on those platforms are negative. Reddit has actually developed quite a few good memes about DKs going night fea because BiS.
It’s interesting how you accuse people like as the minority… Have you ever entertained the thought you might be the minority?
Yikes.
Clearly you don’t understand. I’ll move on…
Just know, you aren’t the majority. That’s a promise.
Nice dishonesty. Perhaps you didn’t play much in Legion, or didn’t pay much attention, but rest assured, it was there much more widespread than the “top 1%” like you’re claiming. Even a basic, quick Google search will reveal how flawed your claim is. Anyone who was intending raiding Mythic did it, and Mythic PUGing was very common. Ironic how you’re leaving out that even PUGs had you link your legendary, alongside your Artifact Powers.
Do you want to try that one again with a bit more honesty?
I doubt that. I played legion, and I don’t think it is as wide spread as people made it out to be. I’m sure some said they do it just so blizzard would change the system. But people doing it? Highly doubtful.
No one sane rerolled their entire character for legendaries.
That was a top 1% problem.
That is not a game design problem. That is a player problem.
I don’t think I stuttered the first time…
But, there it is again.
Lets try this again. Remember garrisons during WoD beta? Ya the beta testers hated them. They gave the feedback saying the system was too powerful, destroys professions and gave us no reason explore the world of dreanor…And they were right.
The point is there is history shows the beta forums are right. It’s a group of passionate players and always looking to provide feedback.
I remember I was part of the BfA beta. Boy did I hate Azerite, I hated where it was going. Felt nothing like what I was sold in the What’s Next Panel. But the GD forums said they looked cool and interesting… then came live and they began to see the flaws the beta testers warned them about.
And even then we beta testers were told we don’t know what we were talking about because of some “silent majority”
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It wasn’t hugely wide-spread, but it was common enough for them to add a legendary vendor, right? It was also common enough for them to add bad-luck protection to fight the rerolling that players were doing.
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