Taking prosperity vs cenarion ward in WM because the damage is really spiky on trash, but then it’s infinitely harder to keep your tank up doesnt smell of choice to you?
Taking copy azerite to copy beam and do a lot of dmg on big packs but then you really struggle to heal through triad doesn’t either? It does to me. It gives me interesting choices in how I want to help my group
My concern with the Covenant system is that it severely punishes hybrids or spec-swapping. What if you’re that member of your raid team that plays both a DPS and a healer, which you play based on whether the fight is 3, 4 or 5 healable? Anyone who raids somewhat competitively understands that this is a very common occurrence. Yet, the covenant system seems to punish these types of players the most which can devalue the ideology of ‘bring the player, not the class’.
In my opinion, if they want to stress ‘player agency’ then they need to bring in abilities that don’t have a significant impact on dungeon/raid gameplay and stress the cosmetic side of things. Or, they make it easy to swap and change; like talents.
As is stands, they seem to be repeating the same mistakes of class artifacts in legion, which punished those who wanted to swap specs because of class imbalance, etc. It’s concerning that they haven’t seemed to learn from the issues that they have made in the past, even with the community trying to warn them.
Why would I need any new ideas? I’ve just expressed my opinion on the system and why some of us value it.
No one provided a response that would warrant me needing to further defend my opinion. It’s not right, or wrong - just like your thoughts on the system aren’t right or wrong. My opinion also isn’t personal.
I’m just using the forums to discuss and share why some people find it enjoyable and why we would like it to stay as is.
It was mentioned in the recent interview that they are trying to focus mostly on class fantasy this xpac instead of spec fantasy. It is the reason alot of the covenent class abilities semi function across all roles (like druids venthyr ability ravenous frenzy which increases damage haste and healing in an attempt to cover all rolls) or fact alot of the shamans abilities do damage and healing. Now this working or not is still up in the air more testing is needed.
I think tanks get hit the hardest that also enjoy to pvp in arenas when they’re not pushing Mythic raid bosses.
That’s your example?
Anyone could clearly see that certain corruptions would end up getting nerfed, so those people who stacked those broken corruptions knew what they were getting into.
Those who constantly seek out the path of least resistance are constantly chasing the trends. Why should the game be balanced around them? There should be multiple paths through content, not one found on a website or on a YouTube channel.
It’s almost like there’s risk to every choice you make. But nah, the bigger the eraser the more skilled the player apparently…
You’re right - you’re not alone.
It’s just odd to see so many people that actually like the system specifically because of how punishing it is when it doesn’t have to impact any of you.
Which is exactly why unlocking the class abilities would help with this.
Dungeon X works really well for X Necrolord Class ability.
Dungeon Y works really well for X Kyrian Class ability.
3rd boss of Castle Nathria works really well for X Kyrian class ability.
Last boss of Castle Nathria works really well for X Night Fae class ability.
Multiple paths!
Those would all be meaningful choices - that’s why the “meaningful choice” argument for keeping the covenants restrictive doesn’t make any sense.
What do you mean? Stacking broken corruptions? They just picked up the strongest one, which anyone in their right mind would.
Why would you possibly by a worse corruption for?
Not exactly. Content is far less punishing if you can conveniently swap for strengths at will.
If Necrolord ability A works well against single target, than you shouldn’t be able to swap for Kyrian ability C because it happens to cleave. It defeats the notion of player skill entirely.
It would be like if in a Pokémon Battle, instead of the six Pokémon in your roster, you could swap in any Pokémon in the National Dex against your opponent.
The whole point of customization is that there’s a clear positive and negative. Player skill is determined by how players turn the negatives into strengths.
The system is far from finished. What I like is the potential of having choices that can not be swapped easily similar to vanilla, TBC, etc. I am happy to see Blizzard is considering something that is different than what they have done the last 4 expansions. It might suck. I might decide choice is overrated. They might decide not go even go this route. What I am liking is their willingness to consider breaking the current mold.
Unfortunately Blizz hasn’t learned anything from BFA.
They are giving out signals that players were fatigued by systems because they were back loaded and not front loaded for the expansion…>.<
If I had to take a wild guess players are fatigued with the idea of borrowed power and rentals stacked on top of each other.
Basically in shadowlands you are farming AP and Torghast to craft a legendary and also work on conduits and soul binds.
What could go wrong with so many systems? LOL.
But Blizzard themselves disagree with the idea that the player’s skill should turn the negatives into strengths.
To continue with this example, why would Blizzard try and make Conduits that helps for AoE situations if it should all be depending on player skill? This argument doesn’t make sense, and I think it shows you don’t fully grasp the issue.
There’s not enough information on how Conduits, Covenant Abilities, and Crafted Legendaries are going to work in tandem with one another.
But if you were to turn the question around; why enable Covenant ability swapping if Conduits can simply tweak X ability into Y?
Again, the game should not be balanced around players who chase trends. As it appears, Covenants have enough customizations that swapping for ‘the best’ abilities would be moot.
Look I am a pragmatist, I would love to have choices be lasting, meaningful and carry weight. For that to happen I need to know what I am choosing. To be presented with criteria for making a decision and then make a choice on it, only for the criteria to be shifted wildly by balance changes, invalidates the decision I made, I didnt make a decision with a ~20% lower DPS cooldown or a 15% longer survivability one or a soul bind with an extra 10% passive damage etc.
I evaluated the options and if things didn’t change could feel validated that my choice had consequences. When blizzard chop and change things at such breakneck speeds, we only have the illusion of making choices. (like stacking infinite stars, or echoing void, or twilight dev) we keep cycling while blizzard keeps balancing… if we are stuck in a choice of covenant while blizzard keeps balancing and changing things, there is little point making a choice for anything other than aesthetics… wait a minute i just proved blizzards stance saying choose by aesthetics.
Why do players not see they themselves are part of the problem. Yes the ultimate issues goes to Blizzard for being so poor at balancing their game. Players share in some of the blame too. When you know something is obviously broken and then every player rushes to stack said broken effect it is no wonder Blizzard then applies the nerf stick. Then players find the next most broken thing and Blizzard follows suit again. This whole idea that everyone needs to be absolutely optimal is a poison. I am tired of trying to explain this but the game is not balanced around that level of min/maxing. Yes high end content requires you to build your character correctly… but having the wrong ‘supplementary effects’ that are not tied to your actual class or spec will not make any content impossible. Like I have said before, yes they impact world first… but beyond that they do not lock anyone else out of content.
Mark my word - the covenants will be the balancing system and endless power grind that we had in BFA, but much, much more punishing if you pick the wrong one."
They do and have locked people out of content every day. When you spec sucks because you don’t have the right legendary in Legion or the right traits or right corruption now in BFA, you get sat for people that do.
It sucks to be 100% dependent on grinding and hoping you get the right corruption so you can have a raid spot. It also sucks that specs are so buff and nerf dependent that you get sat on that character because it simply is not good that tier. That is the fault of the devs.
BFA has only been bandaid fixes on top of new bandaids, none of it seems well planned - talking specs and gear.
This is a community/player issue. They are sitting people without the best corruptions because in their opinion it makes it EASIER for them to down the boss. If they were better they would not need to worry about those things. Most likely they have sat some of their better players not realizing it. People constantly mistake DPS or HPS as the end all be all for how good or bad someone is.
Yes this is the fault of the devs.
And this isn’t going to change magically with covenants. Your guild fell apart so you go to apply to a new guild. First question is what spec do you play, second question is what covenant? Oh, you’re a Kyrian druid? Sorry man we’re going to find another druid that plays necrolord.