And now we know we can ignore you as there is nothing of value you can bring to this conversation
So long!
People have already stated multiple times that they don’t switch specs or talents up even now.
They play how they want and have communities and guilds that are completely fine with it.
That’s the greatest part. “RP” can and does happen even when flexibility exists - and players are completely fine with self-imposing the restrictions without needing everyone else to play the same way.
That makes it even better when the system forces everyone to play the same way - because there’s always going to be part of the community that gets punished for how they want to play even though a flexible option would allow everyone to play as they wish.
NO MORE TALENT ROWS that’s their buy out of everything taking away 12 abilities and giving you 6 is not a fair or fun compromise or design, they need to move away from talents seriously, use the spell book again, add more abilities… this talent stuff should of never been the focus of class design or game play
But that wouldn’t be a meaningful choice then would it?
Exactly. This is how me and many of my friends have been playing for years. We’re all just casual role-players that like WoW FFXIV and the occassional D&D session when we can all get together on the weekends.
Some take it further than others - personally I just stick with my class/spec/talents. But some people go as far as avoiding flying and using only ground mounts. Others go even further and just refuse to use xmogs. None of those people want those features removed, and personally I don’t want to force people into being locked into anything if it negatively impacts the way they want to play the game.
There’s just no need for restrictions when many of us already actively role-play in WoW to the extent we choose. And none of us have ever been forced into having to switch anything if we don’t want to.
The only way it would matter is if you were selfish and wanted to impose your style of playing on everyone else.
Weird take imo but sure, make them all baseline, even better!
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I wouldn’t bother with the idea of meaningful choice or “RPG” - those arguments are shallow and weak.
The common fundamental to what players like Vallidorn, Ralph, Argiwarl and myself all value and get from the system is that it is punishing to try-hards that like to optimize for everything.
As others have noted, the ability to play in a more traditional “RPG” style is there, and people today actively play that way. “Meaningful” choice is also still there in a flexible system because if players could swap things around - their ability to optimize would be very meaningful to their groups/raids.
To us it’s about enjoying other people suffer the consequences of a system design that is punitive unnecessarily. Some of us own up to it - others choose to use the weak “RPG” and “meaningful choice” arguments.
Blizzard has created content which lets you push to your absolute limit, I’m not sure why you don’t see that Blizzard has helped create this min/max system.
Oh I see it. That’s one of the ironic things about the whole situation.
It’s like the water strider situation.
They make all these zones with water all over the place, and then make it seem like we’re the jerks for using the water walking mount everywhere. So then they put in a system that is horrid and technically gives “player agency” but a simple adjustment to the system would have been light years better.
But players cried - and we sat back and enjoyed it.
Same here. Blizzard makes challenging content where min/maxing matters; then they put in a system that punishes the players that want to play across various content types at that level. We sit back and enjoy it.
It may be a little sadistic I suppose - but we’re not designing the system. We just get to reap the benefits of all the players like yourself being punished for just wanting to play the game the way you like. And the best part…you guys keep paying them your money.
That’s not what happens at all. What happens instead is people go to a website to find out what’s better, swap to that and then never think about it again. That doesn’t scream choice, to me. That sounds like a grocery list or something. If you were stuck with one ability, you might instead decide “Okay, how can I use what I already have?”
You sound like a very jealous and jaded person.
You do not know what experience I have or do not have. People love to assume what characters people main, or what experience they have or do not have. I kill mythic bosses. All of them? Of course not. None of my experience validates or invalidates my opinion. The problem with the WoW community as a whole is they think if you are not optimized you are not viable. The two are completely different things. Since MoP Blizzard has allowed players to freely change to whatever skills best fit each encounter/situation/content/etc. So now people assume that is how it should be and it is broken if you can not do that. If you think of covenants as pure EXTRAS (and remove them from your skill set for a moment) your character is just as strong as they always have been in ALL content. Now add a covenant and you get to be better in something than you have been before and the same in all others. If you perceive that as gamebreaking, then I feel sorry for you.
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Killing mythic Taloc and Mother doesn’t give you a pass to pretend you know anything about the upper end of raiding sorry.
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This entire concept is not about upper raiding, upper keys, or even PvP. The issue at hand is you feel ENTITLED to always be able to swap to whatever is best for the situation rather than making things work. For the coming expansion at this current moment Blizzard evidently disagrees that you should. Nothing more, nothing less.
That’s because you don’t have experience of trying to make things work at the upper end.
How many restoration shamans do you see trying to make it work at 5k raider io? How many sub rogues do you see trying to make it work?
Do you know how many guilds killed Nzoth without 10 immunes before the nerf? Maybe you should be cheerleader letting everyone know they should keep trying to make it work.
You are completely clueless for the realm of balance and you’re so out of your element here you should be honestly banned from even mentioning anything about this topic again.
Nope. We just want a good system.
See Essences, we were called entitled for wanting account wide essences, Blizzard eventually agreed with us and made them account wide. Is Blizzard themselves composed of a bunch of entitled employees?
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Oh no! How dare they!
They even have Blizzard employees who play WoW, they must have asked for it. Ugh Gurgthok is so entitled!!
Except they’re already talking about its removal in their offices.
Ion has said that if feedback is universally panned, they’ll break glass and make the covenant abilities laissez-faire but it’s almost literally the last thing they want to do because then there’s no consequence to the weight of the covenants.
You are not fighting for world first kills. The differences of viable vs optimal outside of self pride for you technically amount to nothing. Your group can struggle twice as long if need be on a boss and again it doesn’t change anything. What matters is you are pushing through as a group while having fun. How long it takes non world first competitors to kill bosses ultimately should have zero impact on Blizzards decisions. You are part of the mass of players in the middle.