#PullTheRipcord The covenant class abilities must be untied to the covenant choice

Community General Discussion
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Irrelevant. Your time is irrelevant to me when discussing whether or not you should have the right to make a claim on who should and shouldn’t be here. The game when it was good, never had such a decision that affected your gameplay to such a degree.

They cannot balance these abilities across 3 aspects of the game. It will be a failure and will more than likely get removed shortly after. You’ve already said your piece. You won’t be here when you get denied for making what’s perceived to be the wrong choice. And it sounds like you’d also leave if they change the game to have no restrictions. So your opinion isn’t really worth much.

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Your inability to accept the argument doesn’t change anything. We all make choices that have consequences in a MMORPG. Luckily most choices can be reversed or something else can be done with time and effort to make a different choice. Thats just how these games work

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I dont care if its irrelevant to you. My experience in the genre makes me an expert the same way someone who has seen and been involved with every iteration of sports cars makes them an expert on what the fundamentals of a sports car is. WoW has always made you make hard choices, even if reversible with some time and effort, suck as race, class, talent/spec, azerite, and now covenants.

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My inability to accept an argument? What argument exactly you just said a bunch of nonsense for ff14 that doesn’t make any sense in the context of locked convenent abilites in wow. You tried to make some sort of connection that really makes no real sense. In ff14 you can have ALL jobs on one character and infact after lvling them up change at any given time with the press of a button and once lvled up they have access to ALL abilities to that job no speclizations no secondary or other powers you have it and can perform with little to no issue. So im not sure where the choices there hamper my ability to play the game outside just equiping a different weapon to turn into another class which is well same as hitting a different spec on wow.

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Pfft. Okay…

False. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

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Didn’t know we had an RPG master in our midst.

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Getting with the times as you say isn’t always good for the game. D3 came out and compared to D2 it is still viewed as a completely inferior game. Classic WoW exists with a very large population and is roughly unchanged from 15 years ago. Sometimes change is NOT good. Looking over the evolution of WoW it is safe to say some was and some was not. Going back to a little more RPG side of WoW and undoing the MoP change that was free reign on situational play could be a step in the right direction. The fact you refuse to even accept that as a possibility really says a lot about you.

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So you’re saying having to put in effort to level a different job so you have that choice isn’t a consequence for not choosing that job to begin with? Do you need a refresher on what the definition of consequence is? Most choices you make in MMOs don’t have lasting consequences due to the amount of hours people are expected to invest in their characters over the years. However, there are still consequences. I admit that WoW has always been the least punishing compared to other MMOs until maybe recent MMOs.

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The problem with Covenant abilities is that the game is not an RPG. It hasn’t been an RPG for years. There are countless systems designed in the game that are not RPG focused. WoW is at its core, right now, a gameplay focused title, not a RPG. There would need to be hundred of systemic changes and massive ground level changes in order for the game to viably support covenants.

Not all of the Covenant abilities are created equal, which means if you’re a mage and you pick Venthyr, good luck getting into a good PvE guild, nobody will take you because you’re speccing for PvP. The suggested Covenant system ignores the way that existing players are playing the game, and how the game is played on a social level.

There were rerolls for Legendary items in Legion. I have no reason not to expect top guilds expecting players to have 4 characters of each class, which I think is purely and utterly degenerate filth design. Blizzard should never incentivize a system where players have to make a permant choice between M+, PvP, and raid power, because no matter what you chose, you will lose.

Right now players have so many resources and tools to minmax and optimize that the meta covenant choices will be known from the moment any given tuning pass goes live on test realms. There will be no meaningul choice, every player with 1 character will need to determine what content is most important to them, and sacrifice performance in ALL other elements of the game, that’s a choice, sure, but it’s not an empowering choice, it’s a choice of what power you’re losing, not what power you’re gaining.

Right now, optimized power is baseline. Anything less than optimal is a loss. Guilds demand players know their optimal specs, their optimal stats, their optimal rotation, and their optimal power in all elements of the game. You can’t force a player to chose between 4 different abilities, that shine in 4 vastly different scenarios, and expect that not to be taken as a major loss in freedom and flexibility.

Metagaming is part of gaming culture, and in order to make a system like Covenants work, you need to have a game that actually supports diverse builds. When has there EVER been multiple builds of the same spec top preforming in the game, and if there has been, when has there been a significant gameplay difference, without one being strictly superior and one being strictly inferior?

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Pleasure to meet you! I love talking about MMOs if you too have almost 20 years of experience across most MMO releases. But I know you’re just being immature which is typical from people in this game.

293

I agree. Change is good, but if you’re changing the fundamentals that make a game a MMORPG, then its not a good change. Might as well create a new genre for that game.

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Except anyone who wants to participate in what you dismiss as esports aspects isn’t allowed to make a story or aesthetics decision. They must make a math based one and if that covenant doesn’t fit them oh well it’s the best one.

It quite literally takes away from the rpg aspects of the game for many people.

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Players already accept those differences between specs. You see specs all over the dps ranking getting accepted for raiding. People will learn to accept the differences in covenants as well.

2 Likes
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More than that, actually.

I’m not the one trying to use a fictional resume to prop up bad arguments on a video game forum.

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Why do you lose? Being optimal is NOT required to do content. Yes the difference between optimal and viable can be the difference in a kill vs a 1% wipe. Clean up your previous pull and that 1% will go down. This whole notion that every player should be optimal for every type of content they do is fallacy. Being viable and as optimal as the game mechanics allow is what is important. Totally changing up everything based on what you are currently running is very ANTI-MMORPG ish and does not belong in WoW. It is high time Blizzard remove that option. Thank you Blizzard.

2 Likes
298

Just like how people ‘accepted’ being time gated for months out of legendary items if they got unlucky? No, covenants as is will result in a very degenerate metagame.

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Fictional? Okay, I think its time to part ways. Come back and talk with me when you calm down. Thanks

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For your covenant choice, you get empowered in one aspect, and lose relative power in the rest. That’s a choice where you pick one thing you’re good at and 3 things where you suck at. That’s not a good example of RPG choice in video games. You should feel like you won with your decision, but every decision with Covenants is a major loss.

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Calm down? Didn’t know making a perfectly legitimate observation was outside the realm of “calm.”

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I accepted it just fine in Legion. It didn’t stop my guild from pushing normal and then heroic raids. I didn’t even get a legendary until 8.2 I think. I didn’t care, because content wasn’t balanced to need them. We still downed bosses as a team.