Meaningful choice means making a decision and having to stick with it… not changing up constantly on the go. Players SHOULD have weaknesses beyond just what their class gives them. There should be variations between the same class and spec. All assassination rogues should not be equal given the same gear. They should have semi permanent choices invested that gives them an edge in this and a weakness in that. They should not be able to change their weaknesses based on the encounter/dungeon/week etc.
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Performing as best they can GIVEN their choices is a correct way to look at this. Players have no problem accepting X class beats Y class or A spec beats B spec. If you think of covenants as a continuation of your character and not as talents it should not be a big deal. Take pride in doing the best you can even if that area happens to not be your strength. WoW is too much like D3 with choices, talents, etc that all amount to what do I feel like right now. MMORPGs should have lasting choices that are very difficult to change from.
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You can’t really tell me how to look at something like this. Because it’s outside of the realm of the game that you play. Take that as a shot even if it’s not, but the crux of the argument is that I should keep my mouth shut and be happy that I perform well in raid but possibly fall behind in other areas of the game…no. Bull. I don’t accept that. The only thing that should play any part in me performing less is my ability to play my class properly. Not a borrowed power that’s there to create a wall that will be gone after Shadowlands.
I am hoping they are testing the waters with more ‘meaningful’ choice and seeing how it plays out. Classes need more permanent (changeable but very difficult and/or penalizing) choices in order to separate even two same spec players. Players should not be able to change if they are aoe based or single target based for example. They should pick something they feel will be most often beneficial and go with it accepting they will be outdone by another in the field they did not specialize in. That is what an MMORPG should be like and has historically been like. Yes Blizzard removed choices like that in recent years but that does not mean it was a good decision. They are now testing out removing those free changes based on situation and seeing how it plays out. I am hoping they give us more lasting choices down the road.
And I know they won’t. And if they keep going in the cycle of trying to force it down everyones throats then you’re going to keep getting pushback just like you’re seeing here. It’s not a simple as some being better at AoE and ST. We’re talking about how some classes will be better than others at specific types of content based on a Covenant choice. It’s garbage and it won’t make it all the way to the end of the xpac. They’re already ready to can it based on the interview with Sloot.
This isn’t World of RPcraft where you can do anything and still get anywhere. People have goals and they want to reach them. And the only way for this to work is if they severely nerfed the difficulty in the game which would essentially kill all interest in the top end.
There was just an interview from preach with morgan day and the convenent system was talked about pretty heavly. Basicly as it goes right now they are literally just trying to get all the abilities soulbinds conduits and legendaries out for testing as early as possible. From there they plan to tune based on whats needed like the Kyrian warlock ability is single target so they might add a conduit to make it aoe instead. They did aknowledge all the possible issues and want to just make it get it out and from there if needed will flat redesign the entire system from the ground up and shape it based on feedback.
WoW is still classified as an MMORPG. So I do think it has a place here. That said they could nerf high end content a little and it would have minimal impact. Characters are not as optimal for content X. That does not matter because content X is tweaked (nerfed) by some % that Blizzard feels counters the fact not all characters are optimal. Content X is still as difficult feeling as it would be if everyone is optimal. This is not hard to imagine working just fine.
That doesn’t matter. Your idea works in a single player RPG game. Because essentially the only person who’s setting the pace of the game is you. Everything is catered to and balanced around you. In an MMO, it does have a place. Any way to Sunday, it’s a copout to look at the label and immediately assume that consequences should be associated with the experience to where you’re at a disadvantage in certain aspects of the game.
Lol. Cop out
absolute cringe, yikes
It does though?
Being good at the game, in an mmorpg especially, involves the ability to make your character as powerful as it can be, and also the ability to optimize it for any situation. Class abilities being tied to a covenant gets in the way of this ability.
Well MMORPGs have historically embraced the RPG side making your choices have consequences. Its part of the draw to MMORPGs for many people since 1999. Playing a RPG with others where you develop your character over years is a huge draw in this genre compared to Single player games where you can do the same, except usually alone and only over the course of at most a couple hundred hours
which MMORPGs have you played where choices in character building didn’t have consequences?
Great it’s 2020. The game should probably get with the times.
FF14 and Swtor for ones Iv played in the last few years none of my story stuff effected my character ability to do stuff.
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GW2, Tera, a bit of Rift, and WoW (both retail and classic)
Admittedly I didn’t play these other MMOs as much as WoW, I’ve never faced a choice with consequences as drastic as this permanent Covenant picking does.
Worst choice that I can think of is legit just choosing between learning 2-3 spells cause I didn’t have enough currency to buy them all. Sucks at first but I know I’ll eventually have enough to get them all.
Covenants however… Pick one and you’re done. If it’s the wrong one, enjoy a month long grind! (Being optimistic here…)
Side note: The concept of hard choices with big impacts/consequences is honestly much more of a thing in Solo RPGS. See Witcher 3, the latest Assassins Creed, the incoming Cyberpunk which should no doubt have those too since it’s made by CDPR, you name them!
MMOs though ? Not nearly as much, if any tbh.
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Or people who aren’t meant for the genre can’t quit joining in and trying to change it into the ARPG and MOBA genre…
Who are you to state who’s for what genre though? Your don’t seem to realize that the game functioned just fine before and even grew before these decisions came to the forefront.
no, but your choice of character affected your ability to perform other roles in a group. For example, your choice to play a Dragoon meant you couldn’t heal others, rezz your team, or tank. Those are consequences of your choice to play a Dragoon. You could level up another job if you wanted the option to do those things.
I’m someone who has played in the genre longer than most and have played most MMORPGs. Even WOW has always had consequences for your choices, even though in recent years they have reduced those consequences. But it hasn’t worked out for Blizzarx, so they’re going back to adding choices that matter with distinct advantages and disadvantages for making those choices.
You mean I would pick a dps class designed dps to dps? FF14 doesn’t have specs just classes or as they are called jobs and they are one role and thats it because they do not have specilizations like in wow. This does nothing to help your argument on keeping a rather bad locked system.