Pugging is a straight up nightmare - We need a MOBA style MMR system

This game has a combat log function, it’s about time it was used.

Log EVERYTHING, place a score against it all, deaths, DPS, HPS, avoidable damage taken, how long you were alive compared to others, interrupts, CC breaks, CC, mitigation, dispels, healing taken. Just take absolutely everything this game can log and place a positive or negative score against it, add in key level, give a score, make an MMR system, let us see what players can actually do and not what their IO, iLVL and dungeon history says.

I tried to run a Workshop 17 today, we got to the last boss with about 5 minutes spare, 45 minutes later we were STILL on the last boss, it was horrible. The top DPS we had was just over 10K DPS overall when we still had time on the clock. Every pull someone was dead on P1, every magnetic arm another 1-2 died, best we got was down to less than 5% when the healer died, needless to say the group couldn’t kill the boss and we had to bail.

Fast forward and I just finished a workshop 15, +3 on the timer. The lowest DPS was 14.6K overall. You cannot pick them, you have no idea what someone can or cannot do, you just have to hope that their IO and iLVL actually match their skill level, and when you start the run and realise they are just not up to scratch, what do you do, try and hope or walk out after the first pack?

I used to think walking out of a key should be a punishable thing, but the more I run, the more I pug, the more I realise, no it shouldn’t, players don’t have any right to be in your group or push to try and finish a key an hour over time if the group is just not up to it, that’s not fair on those who don’t have 1.5 hours to finish a 30 minute dungeon.

Maybe than if we get a scoring system that actually shows what someone can do, maybe than we can look at an M+ and raiding queue system, as it stands to get into LFR and heroic dungeons all you need is an iLVL, but if we could get a real score, just maybe we could than have a queue system of some sort, be it random or custom built.

I’m thinking if we had a score I could list a key, state what the minimum iLVL, IO and overall logged score I want, what type of healer and if I want ranged or melee DPS and than just wait until it fills. No need to filter through players and think “Is this 298 iLVL, 2.1K IO players really a good player?” Because I have been burnt in the past too many times and like many, I don’t want to keep wasting time with keys when there can be a better way.


Maybe if ranked solo shuffle ends up being extremely popular.

Yep, I’d rather not be trapped in a 2 hour run with people that are instantly dead every pull.


It was quite a run, first pull my initial thought was “This won’t go well”, but we got to the last boss with time, and on fort week a boss should be a push over. But yeh, that didn’t work well.

Or just remove any game type that would require these metrics.


Why would they ever do something like that?

at higher key levels people are no longer there for gear, and it’s pretty well known that people are just going for score, so leaving if a key is chalked is fairly normal. no one gets uptight about it generally because again, we only want score.

would rather not spend 2 hours teaching someone how to do a simple mechanic in a +15, probably is selfish but i’m not that much of a masochist

1 Like

Because this is a role-playing game. Not an esport.


I…that’s just such an odd thing to say. Like, because of its genre it can’t have a non-trivial difficulty.


Not always, I ran a JY M12 the other day with a 258 iLVL healer. I have had some M10+ with sub 240 DPS, some people are just there to be carried.

Joined a group for a +16, the leader was a 1900ish io boomkin w/ 290ilvl. dude did 4.5k dps overall. I have no doubt in my mind he literally just invites better dps to carry him in his keys which is fine, but he was literally deadweight in this key. like i think if i didn’t cast spells my pets would do 4.5k overall

we couldn’t physically do enough damage on one of the bosses, even though me and the other dps were doing like 18k overall

Well Blizzard seem hell bent on making it one at this point for some reason


This, friends, is the power of pushing your own key while being somewhat patient/picky.


And here I thought 15K overall was bad. But what is really bad is that I have seen TWICE, once a hunter and once a warlock in low keys where their pets did do more damage than they did.

1 Like

I mean this is the first time I’ve ever seen someone so obviously carried for their IO score in a LONG time. It never happens like this exaggerated.

MMR doesn’t work for PvE.

Almost all the metrics you proposed are heavily dependent on other players. If you’ve got an absolute gigachad of a tank and manage to +3 a key, your DPS is naturally going to be way higher than it would be in that same key where your Tank was struggling and you barely timed it, even if your level of play is identical in those two dungeons.

The nature of pugging always means that you’re putting yourself at the mercy of other players. The only way to avoid that is to not to PuG.


I had about one pull left in me and we barely killed the final boss. took like an hour and some change to do a WORKSHOP 16 out of everything. even with our dmg from me and the other dps being pretty solid

Just like arena and rated battlegrounds?

1 Like

Agreed and I wish they’d stop.


Arena and RBG’s, notable PvE content.

Sometimes it’s just simply not worth the mental boom to stay in a complete carry key for over an hour. I am not the biggest fan of walking out at the final boss but I really cba to be in a dungeon for 2 hours.