Warriors should be rocking double stam trinkets, since the majority of our threat is baked into abilities and barely scales at all.
Or maybe if it’s a fight which requires a high stamina tank a warrior should leave that for a druid. shrug
The problem remains that class design fits players into these incredibly strict roles that constrict the capabilities of their class to be so incredibly specific that there’s no room to adapt to circumstance.
I disagree. I have been through this in original and now in classic and i would consider SOME amount of pvp gear to be almost mandatory. Yes block value is amazing for snap threat. But the gear it is on is going to leave you rage starved.
You need to get crit to around 20% without using 5/5 fury crit talent. This is going to come from pvp gear. Because it has resil. If it didnt have resil on it then you would be better off with pve dps gear.
Hit/expertise are going to take you way beyond what any shield block gear will take you also. Yes block value is greaf for threat. The block value is great. But if you want the most threat, you need a full rage bar and need to be spamming heroic strikes. Those heroic strikes need to crit. And you need to get hit to also gain some rage. In fact if you are low on rage one thing most tanks dont do is stop using shield block. This isnt a warrior tanking lesson so i will stop there, but in100% agree that using SOME pvp gear is not only amazing for threat, i say it is mandatory. Your healers will be fine.
Bro the prot tree has like 3 different talents that reduce the amount of rage you need to cast your threat generating abilities.
Not every guild has access to well geared tank druids, but yes thats the whole reason i rerolled from my prot war to my feral druid, they are simply better main tanks for the endgame of tbc.
on some fights that’s absolutely true. I still wouldn’t stick one tanking high king.
You’re joking right? High king hits for nothing when you have 36k armor and over 60% dodge.
you know me dude shrug
always the prankster.
Well you’re either joking or wrong, take your pick.
I don’t need to check anything 
Everything I stated is factually true and is well known or should be well known. There is nothing that scales better than block value in terms of it’s value for TPS/Damage. Since it synergizes with talents and is a direct flat damage increase to your highest threat/damage ability - Shield Slam.
Maybe you should broaden your reading on TPS, damage and value per point of stats. Block value will always be your highest TPS, this is a factual statement. This is also why they eventually capped it because it was too good and lower Tier gear ranked higher so they implemented the Block value cap.
This is literally a history lesson people.
Over 1 year of in game play time from TBC to BFA playing only a Prot Warrior. Then switched back to Prot Pal.
I literally play this game for 1 reason and 1 reason ONLY… to play Prot and own it up with a shield. So I am well aware of the mechanics and stats since I have wrote many guides over the years. Your statements are rubbish and you need to just learn/read a lot more.
I’m just saying dude, 36k armor or not, it still sucks to have to heal tanks that have a 40% chance to potentially get crushed.
And, you know, maybe that’s literally a development problem in the way raid encounters were designed – even the very fabric of how combat works. Class design, Talent design.
It’s all part of it man. I’m not blaming a druid tank for not being uncrushable because as a druid tank it isn’t possible the way the game is designed.
Finding tanks can be pretty difficult and there’s a lot of responsibility on your shoulders when 24 other people are relying on your ability as a player in order to be successful.
I don’t believe that design decision was ever appropriate or even warranted.
I think the combat in dungeons and pvp better exemplified what made the game fun to play, while I also understand that Classic is a re-release.
I’m just saing that “Moving Forward,” it’d be interesting to explore a potential future for the Warcraft franchise that was a little different – that more than any other piece of feedback, is the thing that the development team isn’t hearing me on and that’s frustrating, man.
It really is.
SVB scales poorly and there isn’t enough of it. Sure it’s good to stack if you’re using a mit set but it only affects shield slam, none of your other abilities or white attacks, and SS is a small percentage of your overall threat since it’s on a 6 second CD. Also pieces that have SBV tend not to have offensive stats on them (crit, armor pen, etc.), so PVP gear of equivalent ilevel will always be way more threat.
DPSing a dungeon used to be a bit of an art-form too, man. You didn’t used to try to AoE every pull into dust.
A tank doesn’t need strong AoE threat to be successful in most heroic dungeons in TBC if your group understands the kill order and which mobs need to be locked down until they become the skull.
But I digress.
I can see I’m in the minority, here.
It’s just not. PvP gear is mostly terrible. Don’t get me wrong there are a few PvP items that are okay to sprinkle in.
There is plenty and it’s the best scaling stat. Just read above. 1 block value will offer more damage and TPS than anything. Since you get 40% bonus to BV from talents/meta then that flat damage gets multiplied by other % damage modifiers like impale, weapon special etc. This is why BV scales so well for damage and threat.
This is the sole reason they capped Block value because it scales so well.
It’s actually the majority of it since it’s the number 1 threat generating ability. It will build threat the highest and prevent threat from being pulled. Obviously this is after the obvious hit caps getting some expertise etc…
However you aren’t going to take attack power over Block value for damage or TPS
Shield Slam is your highest TPS and BV directly boost the flat damage of Shield Slam. I don’t know what else to say this is just basic common sense mechanics. Well I offered some info not going to beat a dead horse. I suggest reading more people.
Of course there is. Im not sure what your point is by stating that though. There are also talents that auto generate rage.
Then there are things you can do in game to generate rage. Did you want to have a discussion about best practices for rage generation?
I mean saying it doesn’t make it true. look at any season 4 piece and you will see it has massive amounts of primary stats, crit, and ArP.
I know how it works. I have a SBV set myself that I use on Brutallus, and another pure set I use for dungeon tanking. In my purest SBV set I have 974 SBV, 14% crit, 5.07% hit, 574 AP, and 0 ArP.
In my threat set I have 440 SBV, 25.61% crit, 6.47 hit (puts me a bit over cap with FF, I know), 1096 AP, and over 1k ArP.
In no universe is an extra 500 SBV going to be more threat than 11.5% extra crit, over 1k armor pen, and an extra 500 attack power. If you think so you just need to do some research. Anyone will tell you the same. SBV ONLY affects shield slam - it does nothing for auto attacks, devastate, revenge, etc. ArP and crit affect ALL your abilities.
And as this is my main I have all bis pieces for SBV outside of the shoulders from Twins (which will hopefully drop soon!), so you can’t really go much higher than this. (Also I was generous and included in this calculation using 3/3 shield mastery and the meta that gives SBV.
It’s not man, it only affects one ability lol. But believe what you want. Even if you aren’t running impale build it still far outstrips SBV in threat. SBV is good in certain situation because it double dips in both mit and threat, but for pure threat there are far better stats you should aim for.
You didnt mention expertise at all in any of your builds. If you are not taking expertise as a main stat then you serioisly need to try it. Its a game changer. It should be ranked above hit.
If there was one thing i could tell a new warrior tank it would be to get exp and hit. So many new tanks focus on mitigation and stam. But get crit ammune capped and then get as much exp and hit you need. I have a set for 9% hit just for 5 mans when ff is not available.
Shield slam is an important ability for sure. You should try to never miss one. It is without a doubt the highest threat generating ability you have. But from my experiences, as it seems you have also seen, stacking it at the expense of somenof the stats you can get from a few pvp pieces is just not a effective for max threat. There are a few tier pieces that are better getting the dps version for also.
I dont think all pvp gear should be used over prot gear. Not at all. But i do believe that there is a point, depending on what your gear offers you in stats, that a few pieces of pvp gear ovee pve tank gear is going benifit you much more benifit with the increased threat.
I didn’t mention it because I am expertise capped in sunwell gear for both sets almost. But yes you are right for soft cap expertise is the best point-for-point threat, and still good even up to the hard cap. This is what makes some of the T6 tier pieces so awesome.
It really depends on the encounter and how much threat it calls for. Threat is like breast size. After a certain amount, the rest is just for show. Certain encounters require massive amount of threat and you stack as much as you can get away with. Others you need a balanced set. Some you want to go full mit. You need to study the boss fights and figure out what is the right balance given your comp and raid dps, and incoming boss damage.
Do what you want! if its fun, try it.