Prot War Nerfs

In Development Undermine(d) PTR Discussion
21

It’s not the same in the least. WoG uses up Holy Power and Mana which also is used for SoTR. WoG covers damage already taken while Ignore Pain absorbs 50% of the damage. Warriors also have a much higher Health Pool which makes Ignore Pain even stronger. Baseline, pre-buffs Warriors have 1.3 million more HP with the same Ilvl.

Again, our 50% damage mitigation is on a 5 minute CD. We are next to DKs in terms of being prone to globaled death. The majority of our defensives are 20-25% reductions on 1-2 minute CDs that have 6-8 second uptimes.

  • 30% uptime difference
    • 46% Faith in the Light (WoG 5% Block Chance Buff)
    • 75% Ignore Pain
  • Ignore Pain mitigated 509 million damage
  • WoG self-healed for 316 million damage

I can look at it how I see it especially from people who don’t understand the differences in class mitigations. I can and will call out people using these false equivalent arguments.

22

for me its not that just our mitigation is getting nerfed which it is net negative any way you look at it. the 30% right now from the initial looks wont be enough to make up for the rage gen loss. the 30 sec reduction in cd wont make up for the the amount of time reduction we get from spending rage. on top of that it nerfs our uptime on avatar reducing our already mediocre damage. then you look at colossus and it was already having rage issues and now they will be severely compounded so i would hope they would make a change to improve that situation not make it worse. overall its just a net nerf to prot and honestly fun wise its a pretty bad way to nerf the class as well. kind of giving it the dk death strike treatment and increasing the cognitive load.

23

I’m not agreeing with their changes and and I think all tanks can use better balancing. What I don’t like is everyone pointing fingers at Prot Paladins who try to make it sound like we have the best mitigation or on par with Warriors when we clearly don’t.

We briefly touched on this earlier, but they made a significant change to Paladins a while ago to make SoTR more “meaningful”, but here we are still spamming it for 100% uptime. We will have to wait and see what the true impacts of the rage gen changes are and if there are more changes coming.

24

honestly idk what their plans are for tanks and overall this is kinda a poke in the eye when they are nerfing prot warriors when pallys destroy them in damage which is waht i expect alot of the comparisons really come down to, the fact that pallys are meta and didnt catch anything yet. that being said im kinda expecting a nerf in the ptr to pallys, the question is how much it will be.

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25

Yes, BM needs a massive overhaul, DK needs better mitigation for tank busters, and warriors/druids need more damage.

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26

you say it so simply yet blizzard cant figure it out.

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27

For sure easier said than done lol. I think a major problem is that the gaming industry in general have non-gamers developing and making decisions.

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28

I think both you and Angrydogs are getting sidetracked in an argument here (one that isn’t the point of this thread)

I don’t think Prot Paladin should be nerfed, and I think the point that Angrydogs is making is that with these nerfs to Prot War, Prot Paladin (in order to stay balanced relative to prot war) would also need to get nerfed significantly.

My argument is neither one of these. My argument is that tanks, in general, should not ever be getting nerfed at this time. They are not fun, no one is tanking leading to a significant deficit in tanking. I think ALL tanks should be getting gameplay overalls and buffs (as appropriate) to ensure they continue to have a playerbase.

Tank nerfs = no tanks = no game.

It’s just that simple

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29

Yes, and which is what I focuses on and disputed.

30

Agree - but let’s also make tanks balanced. SO, you know, there isn’t 1 tank for a season… :slight_smile:

31

Who is considering Prot Pallies as paper tanks?

32

Anyone who runs keys? Prot Paladin is one of the squishiest tanks even after the. 0.5 patch.

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33

That’s certainly not the experience I’ve had healing 11s and 12s. Almost every key I’ve run in the last month has been with a prot pally. Most groups I’ve been in have selectively recruited pallies tanks. Just my experience.

However, I also noticed on Raiderio that the top 144 dungeons are all prot pallies. I doubt they are being brought if they were squishy.

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34

They are meta because of the damage we can do. In terms of mitigation we are definitely considered paper. It’s partly why the meta healer also shifted from Resto Sham to Disc Priest because of pain suppression. We heavily rely on group stops and utilities because our defensive cds only mitigate 20-25% damage while our 50% reduction is on a 5 minute cd. In comparison, warriors ignore pain has no CD and mitigates 50% with like 80% uptime in a dungeon run.

35

This is disingenious because you can massively reduce that CD w/ avenger’s shield and holy power spenders.

But I do agree with you Paladin could use some baseline defensive buffs, and in that same light Prot War could use some damage buffs, not defensive nerfs

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36

Your right that AS and spending holy power reduces CD, but it’s still 3+ minutes for the 8 second uptime.

I can agree with this. More tanks should feel like warrior in terms of defensiveness and more tanks should feel like paladins for dps.

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37

fully agreed

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38

That’s the unfortunate part of the projected nerfs, Colossus is taking a larger hit than Thane with these nerfs.
In 10s at least when geared Colossus Prot can pull DPS numbers equal to or better than a prot paladin, however their high key representation is lacking compared to Thane due to the defensive benefits of the increased rage generation make it safer than the higher skill cap in managing Colossus’s rage defensively while maximising throughput.

There should 100% be better parity between tanks and hero talents they have access to.

39

I’m going to have to make a correction here. Faith in light is 15/30% increased block chance based on how many points you put into the talent. It should also be noted that between faith in light and barricade of faith paladins can obtain on demand 100% spell block for every single magic tank hit in the game. So while technically, yes, they are squishier overall, they are better at mitigating tank hits because they have more answers for them than any other tank in the game.

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40

I am just going to post in every Prot Warrior Nerf thread because the rage nerfs seem a little excessive and currently Prot Warrior feels just ok and this is more of a dps nerf.

It felt amazing in dragonflight however now, it just feels ok. With these proposed changes, it feels like our offensive abilities are going to be reigned in.

Developers’ notes: Protection Warriors are currently constantly flooded with Rage which undermines rotational defensive decision-making and encourages constant dumping of Rage into Ignore Pain to maximize effectiveness. We’re taking a pass at reducing Protection’s overall Rage generation to make decisions on when and how to spend it more meaningful, without reducing Protection Warriors’ ability to tank effectively.

These changes will not change our decision making process.

I think rage feels fine the way it is and I don’t think it really undermines anything defensive wise. We get to use shield block and ignore pain and we even can talent into “overwhelming rage” if needed. Its also nice to be able to spend some rage on a revenge or an execute here and there when its not up or proc’d

These changes feel reminiscent of Legion (Release Ignore Pain) where Ignore Pain was awesome and then completely gutted.

The change to Strategist seems unnecessary “Chance to reset the cooldown of Shield Slam from Devastator and Strategist reduced to 20% (was 30%).”

(4) Set: During Luck of the Draw! Shield Slam’s chance to critically strike is increased by 50% and its critical strikes reduce the cooldown of Shield Charge by 6 seconds.

  • Chance to reset the cooldown of Shield Slam from Devastator and Strategist reduced to 20% (was 30%).

Not needed this feels like its hamstringing our offensive abilities.

  • Impenetrable Wall no longer increases Rage generated by Shield Slam.

Not needed, this is more nerfs to our offensive options.

  • Booming Voice causes Demoralizing Shout to generate 20 Rage (was 30).

Its nice to be able to pull a large pack, demo shout, and have the rage needed to mitigate the pack.

  • Champion’s Bulwark no longer increases the Rage generated by Shield Charge.

Still very useful in M+ with larger packs of mobs

  • Bloodsurge now causes damage from Deep Wounds to have a chance to generate 3 Rage.

Fine if you want to take away 2 rage from this and not touch the other talents rage gen… Ok…

  • Violent Outburst has been rebuilt to be easier to understand and track progress towards the next Outburst. Additional Rage generated from Violent Outburst reduced to 50% (was 100%).

Again why the nerf to rage?

  • Shield Wall cooldown reduced to 3 minutes (was 3.5 minutes).

Ok but our 4 set bonus is also going to proc Shield Wall Randomly which is cool.

  • Amount of damage ignored from each use of Ignore Pain increased by 30%.

Very cool but worried that this will be reverted after implemented and we will be left rage starved like back in legion after the nerfs.

I hope more prot warrior mains have feedback regarding these changes. I only play a prot warrior and I’ll always play through the ups and downs but this just seems like big nerfs to our gameplay and fun.

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