Are we really that bad? I’ve been finding it increasing hard to get an invite into M+ pug groups? I’m talking in the range of 2 to 7. It seems the only way to tank is either making my own group or joining guild or friends groups.
I know we definely are not the strongest or a meta tank but still struggling to pug into a 2 to 4 bracket range is bad
It’s definitely rough. I think there’s a bit of test bias on the beta when some of the best tanks in the world are playing these specs, and certain weaknesses are pushed to live.
I feel almost as weak as I did in SL Season 1, with a few deaths that I never normally would have happen thanks to WoG being as weak as it is. Double tapping wog with two stacks of Shining Light to get the healing I NEED sets back my holy power generation enough that I have gaps in my SOTR uptime. I feel we need a baseline durability buff, at minimum in addition to the changes we’re getting in 11.0.5.
I think there are just a lot of bad tanks that don’t know how to fully utilize the Paladin’s toolkit. I’ve tanked +5s so far in 605 ilvl and feel pretty good face tanking multiple packs.
I feel like it’s really easy to mess up and get caught off guard.
Which in turn makes us seem like paper tanks that can die out of nowhere.
Everything feel disjointed, I always feel like I’m falling behind on something with Prot Pal.
I want to use templar but I have to commit using a defensive going in (fine) but then another GCD to HoL, meanwhile I want it to blast so I use Sentinel which makes it so I commited 2 defensives at the start.
So I’m already 2 GCD in and don’t have a HP on me yet and then I feel like I need to press AS to bring a caster to me so now 3GCD and no HP.
I need consecration down, damn it, 4gcd and no HP.
All the while I didn’t extend wings nor shake the heaven a single time in there and I don’t have SotR up.
Obviously we might point at the order of the things I did and say I went wrong at X.
But my point is, there’s seems to be a lack of direction behind what we’re suppose to do, leaving us confused as to what to use first.
Why are there 2 buttons that are part of our active mitigation that are completely removed from the HP system? (Consecration and Avenger Shield)
For a tank that is supposed to help his team, I find the rotation incredibly busy and lacking in flexibility when you do try to do that.
It is extremely frustrating and unforgiving to try and bless, heal or cleanse allies, when all of these cost you GCD’s that you NEED to use to keep SotR up or maintain your wings or our Hero spec gimmick.
Hero spec for which there’s no link with AS at all.
I’m sure that in a very coordinated group, where players can fend for themselves and the Prot pally doesn’t need to be a “goalkeeper” and catch other people mistake, that it can perform just as good as other tanks.
At the end of the day, it just becomes a very stressful experience for everyone involved and ultimately no one is playing for this type of stress, IMO.
Na it’s a little of both and being GCD starved with too much setup.
Reminds me of SL season 1, with us doing less damage.
It is doable however.
What setup? You run in, throw avenger’s shield, drop conc, SoTR/Defensive. It’s not any different from DF or SL.
Ya of you can hold time still, not play with a GCD like the rest of everyone, and not have to actually generate threat.
Then ya, that might be not a complete exaggeration of oversimplification.
But hey I’m usually not just pulling one mob at a time with wet noodles as my dps.
It wasn’t a complete oversimplification. I like how I asked you to explain what this supposed “setup” is and you are the one who exaggerates with hyperbole.
Yeah there pretty bad above a +6 key they are just weak. as soon as your cd’s go down or you run out or you step out of con to long your dead.
You keep talking about 5s but man in 6-8 I get hit extremely hard compared to any of our Prot Warriors, BDK or Druids. Its the state right now. I can go from 100% to 10% before my GCD is up. I have several pulls that if I don’t rotate all of my CDs I can die.
I know you will say ok you are pulling too much but the fact is, its the same routes the other tanks can take while they take easily 30-40% less damage and are far easier to heal for our healers. So unless you are some god tier player I don’t see how you can say they are not in a worse state right now. Its not undoable by any means it just takes more coordination and preparing pulls appropriately that our groups just don’t have to do with other tanks.
I talk about 5s cause that’s what I’ve done so far. I don’t like to speak about things I don’t have experience in. I hope you can at least respect that. Unfortunately, due to health issues I wasn’t able to play much last week, but I do expect to dip into 7+ keys today and I’ll let you know what I think.
I did get a few 6s in last night though and they felt fine to me. I personally don’t think going from a 6 to a 7 would be that much of a jump, but like I said, I’ll let you know once I actually step into it.
I think I explained pretty well that the first couple gcds being locked up with initial threat generation and the time it takes to do your number one job aka not letting your dps rip aggro, and also manage to get your DMG reductions up is a little much.
But that requires some reading comprehension I guess.
You literally did not explain anything except in hyperbolic statements. You continue to avoid telling me your spell/ability run down and instead resort to ad homs.
Avenger’s Shield is enough to snap agro and is only 1 GCD. It is also done at range, not melee, which frees up additional GCDs.
SOTR is off GCD which you can have running from pull to pull. The damage reduction from consecration also continues for several seconds while standing outside of it now which also layers with SOTR. You can also keep Blessed Hammer active to keep your HP building.
Keep sticking to ad homs and nothing of substance. Your emotional response just shows everyone that you don’t actually know what you are talking about.
I think your the only one showing emotion.
And it’s hard to read all that vomit of a text.
I don’t need to explain any further. The game is not played in simulator. Things don’t go perfectly on script.
You literally justify my exact statement with your whole pre pull prep. That’s exactly what I’m talking about about. You literally need to fire off 4 abilities before even pulling and even generating threat. Other tanks don’t need to do that.
You should listen more, and type less.
You just like to listen to yourself talk.
I’m not the one making things personal. I’ve stuck to the topic and facts. You have not.
Yeah, it must be hard to read facts that goes against your opinions.
You kind of do if you are going to be hyperbolic and make wild claims.
It actually goes against what you’re trying to say. AS is 1 GCD and is all you need to snap agro. The rest of what I listed is carry-over from the previous pull.
You should time some keys as a tank before trying to come at me about tanking.
I think the ramp time to get SoTR going makes some paladins squishy. I think liberal use of a Eye of Tyr at the open of a tough AoE pack really helps, but im not a pro with prot by any means.
go full GCD starve and just focus on passive mitigation, full crit full mastery. go full haste later.
It’s pretty disingenuous to not treat the 3-4 GCDs that follow the AS to start your active mitigation windows as a thing that exists. Judgement > blessed hammer > consecrate/SoTR on that GCD is a long time with our baseline durability being as low as it is. And this is with Wings up btw, add another GCD to get all of your AM up.
You can’t treat carry overs from the last pull as standard, there are simply too many pulls you cannot do that for.
Normal non-fortified single trash packs in the ~4-5 key range should be tankable without using a CD. Currently our WoG output just doesn’t keep up and continues to be an issue as pulls/keys get bigger.
Considering I have timed and completed harder content and have a higher rating maybe you should just sit down and quiet yourself I wasn’t gonna go there, but if you want to we can.
Where? The only time you completed “higher” content was Season 3 of DF which was the easiest season to date that I sat out of. Currently, half of your score are from untimed keys.
It’s not disingenuous and most of the time it is carry over from pull to pull. I literally go pull to pull with AS, drop conc, and continue with whatever ability would be next if the pulled continued.