Calm down guys. You dont need to be rude to each other, this is a game.
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But I’m still a higher io score cause I did harder.
End of story.
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Lmao. Congrats you played more on week 1 and still failed hard with higher ilvl where half your keys are untimed. Week 1 score means nothing and it’s honestly hilarious that you had to back pedal and resort to that cause otherwise you would actually have nothing.
There are some major changes being forcasted in the PTR. Lots of new talents. Going to be real interesting when it hits mid-season.
I’ve seen someone saying that we’re getting some nerfs on armor and haste. Is that true?
I have not heard anything about that, so I can’t say if it’s true or not. I could see the rationale for nerfing haste though.
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The changes they are making don’t help us at all
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No one is backpedaling. Your not in touch with reality. And your bad. And you get your self esteem on a internet forum with lies you tell yourself because you have nothing better going on on your life.
I didn’t even try and make it about anything. You came at me, and well, your not as good as me. Man that has to feel bad. And I pug every key.
At least your name is appropriate. You are indeed very sorry
You are.
LOL right…
You’re probably talking about the class tree changes for those specifically.
It helps the class as a whole, the tree will be much more flexible afterwards.
Throughput in the class tree is a trap, all specs are tuned to do loosely the same.
If you got haste or dmg in the class tree, you will be tuned with those in mind, not despite them.
Those thing they are removing aren’t part of Prot problem, those are much deeper.
So it’s inconsequential really, because the fix needed for prot wouldn’t have went through the talents they are removing anyway.
In fact, they straight up said they were buffing SotR specifically because they were removing Strength of Conviction.
When we say we’re tune with those in mind… Yep…
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So I ran a bunch of keys tonight at the +6/7 key level, Fortified at that, and I’m still sticking to what I was saying earlier.
The +7 Ara-Kara I ran felt perfectly fine trash wise, but missed the timer because multiple people died on the first boss from swirlies, alarm bugs going off, and people also dying multiple times on the last boss; however, none of that detracts from how the trash itself feels while tanking.
I also attempted a +7 Stonevault that was incomplete because of a D/C (pug life) which felt a bit harder than the trash in Ara, but were also much bigger pulls.
The +7 Dawnbreaker was timed which didn’t have much difficult trash, imo, aside from one of the mini-bosses with the spider eggs near the house, but was fine with CDs rolling.
Mind you, this is with me in 607 ilvl with a Heroic dungeon trinket and 4 pieces of gear from M0.
I don’t think it is reasonable to expect to time old+15s, or higher, easily while being ~30 ilvls below max for tier. That’s like an entire raid tier from one season to the next.
I understand the frustration. We are highly GCD locked with unintuitive and frankly, counterproductive hero talents, and weaker than average damage mitigation with low self-healing.
Alternatively, we can provide some group support through kicks-- I usually end dungeons 60+, and relatively high damage. I’m usually 750-850k overall in Stonevault at only 605 ilvl on my paladin.
I am mostly okay with this tradeoff. What I’m NOT okay with, is playing my hero talents optimally to cycle my weapons/bulwarks, and going OOM. God forbid you have to dispel someone…
I shouldn’t have to drink more frequently than the healer just by consuming my “free” Shining Light Word of Glory procs. I never cast WoG without a free proc and I’m still going oom. This is WRONG.
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Looking at raiderio there is a prot pally on the 12 spot and then 31 so there are some good port pally but mostly is guaridan druid and prot warrior.
Like I responded yesterday, the talents that were helping the “throughput” of prot (defensiveness) and that they removed, they are now putting baseline
PALADIN
Protection
Base armor increased by 10%.
Blessed Hammer, Judgment, and Hammer of the Righteous cooldowns reduced by 10%.
Armor from Shield of the Righteous increased by 10%.
Inmost Light cooldown reduction increased to 33% (was 20%).
Plus a slight side buff to Templar through a shorter CD on Eye of Tyr.
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We are losing haste thru class tree changes on the PTR. And gaining a bunch of useless, poorly thought out talents that have required pathing.
And we’ve seen zero iteration based on feedback so far 
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Useless to you maybe.
Fact is, after all the throughput talent taken you have 5 points to put pretty much anywhere you want…
Speed + heal on all blessing isn’t useless.
LoH being an external CD on Tank isn’t useless
Being healed 15% more when you use DP isn’t useless.
The ability the help kite with Consecrated ground now that it doesn’t compete with a throughput talent isn’t useless.
Are they game changing? No and they don’t need to be.
Are there some uninspired new talents? sure
The shift in philosophy is the important part and having talents that just enhance what we were already doing is exactly what these class talent needs to be.
it’s tough if your healer is afk or you have to solo carry the group (as we usually have to) since you lose so many globals not keeping up mitigation and healing and generating procs
in a good group it feels fine
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It’s like 60k healing in current tuning. Literally 1% HP of a DPS.
From a prot perspective, it takes one of our only remaining free off heals and is turning into something we need to use on ourselves to survive as a rotational defensive CD. Good for ret and holy? Sure, I guess, if you want to reserve it for tanks, but we already have tools for them including strong spot healing.
It’s already a 20% DR. We already have bubble, extra phys DR from plate and shield. Making our Dr stronger is “nice” but not needed. We are again strengthening DRs that are already too prevalent and too strong.
Sure I guess? But kiting is not a common tactic, even at high levels. And having it tied to conc is a weird choice.
I’m still looking for something to help further emphasize Avenger’s Shield. Losing Tyr’s Enforcer viability in the newest tree iteration to get Uther’s Counsel is going to hurt prot where it matters most-- passive tankiness especially via Bulwark of Order.
Did I miss the part where they nerfed our armor to account for this?
The only thing it does for prot is give you more armor if you ever LoH yourself.
Which is not something were really doing now anyway.
It still not useless since its the class tree, it’s for all 3 specs.
It’s not a prot rework.
Beside, now if you have another Pally as a healer or even a ret they can LoH YOU and you can still use bubble, which is a very nice QoL improvement.
If you run out of defensive you don’t just stand there, you kite.
That’s a pretty common strategy that we can see done regularly, I don’t know wth you’re talking about here.
It’ll be even more common now that sanguine doesn’t exist anymore.
In fact, I don’t need to go further than Grim Batol Ogre enforcer to tell you we do kite if we don’t have a stun to make the stacks drop.
Your point was that it was useless, it’s not.
15% additional healing can save you from dying and is purposeful because you wouldn’t use DP in a situation where you don’t expect to be healed either.
The class tree rework IS NOT a PROT rework.
They should rework those talent/abilities btw and Prot.
But complaining the class tree isn’t doing that is a gross misconception of what the class tree is suppose to be.
Also why the hell would you Drop Tyr for Uther counsel??? 
Because suddenly LoH giving armor makes it worth it?
You’re gonna go the degenerate way and precast LoH on yourself before a pull??
And even if we were to drop 1 point of enforcer, wouldn’t it be for Refining fire instead?
And that doesn’t even do anything in a Raid encounter, it’ll buy 1 use if you use LoH at the start of a fight.
Who does that? On themselves? As a tank?
Come on…
Prot pally is rough right now in mythic plus. I’ve tried tanking and get smashed pretty easily, and that’s as low as 4s and 5s. When healing them, they go down very quicky, much more than any other tank this season. They need buffs to their base damage reduction and Word of Glory needs to heal more.
It’s like they’re Blood DKs in taking damage, with nowhere near the self healing ability.
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