Skill ceiling is absolutely a valid argument. Statistically, paladin tanks make up 17.9% of all +15 and up keys, which is sitting at 2nd place behind DH. 3rd place are monks at 14.2%.
If you drop down the threshold to +10 and up paladins now make up 22.7%. Monks again at 3rd place at 13%.
Statistically, paladins are not behind.
That is the point of climbing keys. To showcase your skill. Therefore skill walls are a thing.
They all have strengths and weaknesses, but paladins are nowhere near the bottom.
You brought no evidence besides anecdotes, if even.
So this is my Druid (paladum / droodum)
I started timing 10s when I was below item level on this Druid compared to my paladin .
Is it a skill / group issue ? Yes it must be
And thatās the point . As a average player that is trying to time all 15s in pugs it is way easier to do it as a Druid then a paladin.
I have tried following different opinions etc given out on forums / read class guides but at the end of the day this is my experience and for others doing tanking as a paladin.
The same person should be able to time the same keys on different tanks especially if their main in bfa was paladin and thatās where they feel more comfortable.
I find it harder to tank on a paladin in pugs then a Druid. The reason seems to be is being squishy (not lack of self sustain)
Yes and no. Play styles are different from class to class. Also tanking in shadowlands is a different experience than in past expansions. Itās no longer a relevant thing to bring up imo.
I donāt think they designed KSM to be obtainable to the āaverageā player. I am no pro by any means, but anyone pushing 15s I would consider above average.
As I shared before, there are higher percentages of paladins in 15+ and 10+ keys than other classes, minus DH.
@blizz take note here. I love pally but right now our main build is specing to get bubble from Avengers Shield. And using that as our primary mitigation while spending HP on WoG. SotR is useless to me. Like Iāll try and maintain it but at some point youāre going to sacrifice SotR for WoG. And depending on the healer it could be as soon as I pull because damn, my HP is a freaking YoYo with out AD or GotAK.
Curious why no one speaks of pace tanking these days. Have a group of fiveā¦CC the the one you want, pull fourā¦When the first one or two take the dirt nap, pull the ccāed on in and finish the job with the others. It seems tanks are a little more reliable on healers this expansion and spell dmg is also up. I have been casual thus far in mythic plus but mine seems rather stout unless people start pulling things they arenāt suppose to. I look forward to the climb though where I can add more input. Hopefully there will be a work around found that makes everyone happy.
Just thought I would post my 2 cents. I donāt exclusively pally tank for keys but Iāve gone with a heavier haste and versatility build and I think the faster HP generation with the the DR and healing bonuses from versatility is evening out the damage quite a bit. I donāt run super high keys so I cant speak to life at 15+.
Though I do not main Prot at all one thing I can say with some certainty is that Holy Shield needed to be baseline tbh. That would be a great place to start.
Hard ccing mobs add a lot of engagement time for the tank and dps who may have used their cds earlier in the pull. When the name of the game is beating the timer, we need to be as efficient as possible. Using aoe stuns and utilities effectively mitigates tank and group wide damage while also getting everything down as soon as possible.
15% is way to low IMO. You want to get a minimum of 20% even pushing closer to 25. Blessed hammer spec helps with holy power generation to maintain 100% uptime on SoTR longer.
Glad somebody mentioned The DPS ITT. yes we canāt face tank things like bears, but we also do double the DPS (and 3.5-4.5k is very respectable depending on the dungeon) and have better interrupts. While they still have better everything else, we are far from inferior in m+ unless youāre pushing extremely high keys.
Cāmon manā¦ I get what you are saying, but the mastery proc on orb pickup from DT is ~5% damage reduction for 10 sec. With some lucky blocks, which you really need to have HS and the +15% Block Chance to take full advantage of, you might be able to stretch it to 8% dr over the course of the mastery boost. As we scale in the expansion, that dr will be less, as the mastery boost is rating, not raw %, and subject to diminishing returnsā¦
Thatās not a cooldown, thatās basically comparable to a set bonus proc from previous tiers.
While I donāt think Prot is trash, they have some clear and glaring issues with tankiness compared to literally ever other tank class. If you listen to Max from Limit, who has a couple videos about it, a lot of it has to do with the utility budget of the class. If Prot was 15-20% tankier (bringing them in line with other tanks), our damage and utility would make them the only tank for every mythic raid world first attempt AND the leading M+ tank. Thatās not healthy for the game or the spec.
I donāt know about you, but Iād rather just have a class I enjoy be good at the role I enjoy. If that means losing some of my utility and damage, sign me up.
Well then Iāve got great news, because Prot is indeed a good Tank spec. At the level of content youāre currently doing (Normal CN, <10 M+), if you feel that youāre having significant issues with the spec, I promise itās not the spec.
If you stream yourself tanking an M+ and upload the video, Iām sure thereās a lot of things we could help you correct.
If you would prefer the damage/utility/mitigation profile of other existing Tank specs, why not just go play one of them instead? Hell, the fact that youāre saying you would trade damage for mitigation while youāre running Bulwark instead of a defensive option like Holy Avenger tells me you havenāt put too much thought into this.
You canāt make up a fact by saying āfact isā lol.
Maybe Iām misunderstanding what youāre saying here? To me it seems youāre saying the top 10 paladin tanks arenāt doing much above 18 key range.
