As I’m reading it the CD reduction doesnt start until AD falls off. So even if you extend it with resolute defender and start chunking off the CD seconds none of those will matter since it will just be reset to 1 min no matter what it was reduced to.
If I’m reading it wrong feel free to correct me.
That is not correct unfortunately as this does not stack with Unbreakable Spirit:
The Ardent Protector’s Sanctum has been redesigned – When Ardent Defender saves you from death, it restores 40% additional health. When Ardent Defender expires without saving you from death, its remaining cooldown is reduced by 60 seconds. This effect does not stack with Unbreakable Spirit (Talent).
This effectively makes the legendary lackluster and will probably see no use.
Mythic raiding is showing that prot paladins need a flat damage reduction buff. There are too many times where mechanics interfere with your rotation and it causes us to be one shot. Considering i am 226 ilvl, i don’t think i should be having as much of a problem as I am staying alive.
The sotr gameplay feels like crap and i continually find that it is better to just wog myself back up than put 100% of my squish on the healers. The holy power design is garbage and needs to stay on ret paladins only, if that.
When I was leveling up my Holy Priest, I found that I HATE Monks that don’t kite. The ones that just sit there and try to tank like plate does, they’re just so squishy. But those that kite? Oh wow, it was magical the first time I run across a monk who did that.
Good call out. Tragic really 
Having a bit of feel with my Paladin tank, it’s safe to say that it’s weak.
Not sure what the other pally’s here who are claiming its not a problem are talking about, but you should probably try another tank and see how easy it is.
Paladins at the moment are very squishy and the design is not well made. Not sure what the OP is saying about Self-Sustain, The healing on Prot Paladin is great.
It’s just that you are too squishy to do anything and self-healing often is not a solution as it takes away Shield of the Righteous buff.
Inherently you need to kite with the help of dps to slow enemies away from you as Prot Pally has no way to slow enemies down himself, yet you have one of the lowest amounts of kites from the other tanks.
If you look at Bear Druid, where you can simply spam Iron Fur for defense and also have Self-Regen
Or if you look at Vengeance DH who has insane mobility, great mitigation abilities and self-heal as well,
It’s a joke to play Paladin as a tank.
Sure you can do it, but you are just weak compared to other tanks.
But here comes the stupid part of the design.
What makes Prot’s weak in PvE makes them OP in PvP.
Where in PvE, you get hit hard by enemies and have a hard time staying alive, in PvP, WoG is just so powerful because you have soo much self-sustain and there are very few enemy players who can truly bring you down quick enough.
If you need to kite, then the consecrate talent is a must. However, I rarely feel the inherent need to kite. There are a few pulls here and there, but most pulls can be face tanked at least up to +17. Sometimes I have to disengage to drop bleeds and necrotic, or to let healer catch up with group damage. It’s important to differentiate the difference between disengaging versus kiting.
This might be true beyond +18s, but I am able to face tank most pulls even on fortified weeks. With the help of group utilities of course, which should play a factor. Skill definitely plays a factor on damage intake and being able to manage cds for the right pulls and timing during the pull.
Paladins have their strenghts and weaknesses sure, just like every other class. A strength is the dps output paladin tanks can deal that helps with the speed of a run. Typically I can pull 3.3k dps which adds up over the course of an entire run. Another strength is the amount of interrupts we have in our toolkit.
Sorry I don’t have the same experience.
Group utilities like aoe stuns and treeants or else sure.
But you go up to a 5 pack in spires on fort week or even not on Fort and face tank it without any of that even on a 14 and survive I’d be really shocked ( assuming you use 1 cd) and your dps is doing like 4 to 4.5k each and you just stand in thee tanking like it’s a heroic.
And don’t use every 3 holy power on wog
Maybe your healers are just outstanding
Group utilities are a must, and they generally have very low cds. If you are kyrian you can basically alternate divine toll for the mastery bonus and ardent defender every other pull. Using GoAK for the big pulls. I also run with Final Stand and have specific pulls where I want to use it, otherwise it is good for emergencies if something unforseen happens.
Without group utilities, you are right it is not happening. I only really use WoG for pride because it is mostly magic damage or when it is a free cast. SoTR is what I spend holy power on 90% of the time.
100% agree with this . Thank you for laying it all out coherently.
Prot pala is way squisher compared to bfa. Compared to my Druid , tanking on paladin is a nightmare . And I am talking 10s.
To be blunt, you have not completed any 10s on your paladin and you are barely timing 7/8s at 207 ilvl. That is a skill wall, not a class issue.
You have a massive aoe on a 3 second cooldown that does a 50% slow. Paladins have the best slow of all the tanks.
You should be running First Avenger. It does an immense amount of passive healing in the form of absorbs. It is extremely strong when paired with Divine Toll and Holy Avengers Sigil.
You’re not utilizing divine shield, guardian of kings, ardent defender, and divine toll properly. While there can definitely be gaps in some instances where you’ll need to kite, good management of your actives while being proactive in interrupting will resolve most of your complaints. Paladin’s can interrupt more spells than any other class. It is a massive damage reduction if you do it right.
I also only use WoG when it’s a free cast. Maybe 2/100 casts are spending holy power. The times I do spend it with holy power I am usually mid kite and just helping the healer catch up. Since I am not being hit in melee the armor isn’t necessary. I tend to sit on it as well until it’s an optimal time to use it. You get a feel for this through experience, and once you play a lot you’ll figure out a good rythm.
I was doing 10+ right at the start of the season before the nerfs and at sub 200 ilvl. Each tank has weaknesses, learn to adapt and git gud.
You’re not even utilizing the massive mastery boost from peligos which paired with first avenger, turns divine toll into a 1 minute defensive cd for aoe pulls.
I’m thinking your issue is primarily lack of knowledge and ability, rather than the class.
Skill and Git Gud are just lame excuses.
They don’t relate to people who play multiple tanks.
I have leveled 3 tanks to max level, yet the Paladin at times even though it’s the highest ilevel of them, is usually still the squishiest and hardest to keep alive.
Which usually throws off Pug Healers.
As mentioned, vengeance and guardian don’t suffer the same way, sure they are the more tanky tanks, but still, being like 10 ilevels lower and vengeance easy tanking +8’s while with Pally you actually have to pay attention, doesn’t feel correct.
You’re wrong here. Talent into the consecrate slow
Prot paladin is the 2nd most common tank across 1-15 keys. Only VDH is more popular, because it is honestly over tuned. What’s throwing off pug healers is your lack of ability, not the class. But of course like all people complaining in this forum it’s always the game that must change and not you. It couldn’t possibly be that you’re doing something wrong. It must absolutely be the game!
So I’ve seen a lot of responses here from Paladin players who are likely Min-Maxing as much as possible and pushing high-tier content, but I want to remind you that we’re all here to improve the class…so why are some people getting so butt hurt and calling it poor gameplay? People here are simply airing out issues they have noticed with the game, while others are just typing about how people suck??
Fact is, every top 10 paladin tank has barely passed +17-18 Keys…meanwhile, other tanks are pushing 20+. Look at the sheer number of VDH pushing +20 keys with a bit of practice…
The class is in a much better position, but overall still heavily lacking unless you have a dedicated group & are willing to make some trade off’s. But, even then it doesn’t get you far b/c there are lots of barriers. The class needs some minor fine-tuning w/ respect to the design of the class/spell interactions. but who knows if this is on Blizzard’s radar. When I really think about it Paladins and other tanks, in general, need more speed or faster accessibility to speed-like spells that accomplish the same goal. (Barring DH, Monks)
Glad to see that people are also struggling between SOTR and WOG. I was told by a healer in the beginning of this exp that I should always keep the SOTR up while tanking, but mathematically it didn’t make sense.
I use SOTR for the following scenarios (usually pool holy power for them as well). You can see those mobs and bosses with high physical damage spell on tanknotes dot com.
It is about 33% physical dmg reduction with SOTR on(around 40% vs 60% reduction), and some of the heavy boss physical spells might kill you or put you very low health without it on.
The other times I mainly use WOD.
It seems to work well so far. I rarely die in mythic+. Usually other members died before I do due to mechanics.
I remember a streamer said the Pally tank has higher skill cap than other tanks this exp. I kinda agree, since both SOTR and WOD share same resource and we can use both at same time (only have 5 holy power).
I have dk at 60 and other 4 tanks at 50.
IMO, Pally tank requires more planning and skill comparing to other tanks if you want to play it optimally. I only pug (almost never play with same group more than 1 dungeon) and I don’t push key higher than 17, so I can’t tell for higher keys and well organized groups.
No one’s butt hurt. When someone comes into the forums and makes a claim that the game is broken, then people are going to assess the view points for inaccuracies. For example, paladins not having a slow. We are not just saying its poor gameplay and “git gud”, many of us were descriptive and explained why the op was incorrect. We also provided examples and explanations of how to improve.
If you are casting WoG the majority of the time then you are missing out on a lot of dps potential. Which is a protection paladins biggest advantage over other classes. SoTR not only provides damage mitigation, but also a big bump in dps if correctly used in rotation. WoG should only be used when your healer cant keep up with certain pulls or boss tank busters if you have floating holy power with SoTR already up.
Edit: Here is a run from MoTS +14 (can’t post pictures unfortunately)
Overall Damage Done - 4.82M (4K DPS)
1: Shield of the Righteous 1.4M (29.1%)
2: Avenger’s Shield 964k (20%)
3: Judgement 699k (14.5%)
4: Consecration 484k (10.1%)
5: Melee 475k (9.9%)
6: Blessed Hammer 418k (8.7%)
7: Hammer of Wrath 265K (5.5%)
SoTR is for mitigation, but is also huge for damage.
Skill ceiling isn’t useful when there is a clear statistical difference between tanks.
Sure if you are good enough you should be able to beat things that are harder.
But fact remains, people aren’t claiming it’s that Paladins cant do anything.
People are saying, Other tanks can do it better.
Whether it’s the Meta or whatever.
Statistics show, Paladins aren’t beating as high keys.
You have completely ignored that argument and just assume its cause people suck, while ignoring all evidence to the contrary.