Pros/Cons dungeon finder vs Party Finder

WoW Classic Mists of Pandaria Classic Discussion
1

Party Finder. A new LFG tool in wrath that lets you post your spec along with a brief message. Groups can look down this list to find the role/class/level they want

Pro

  • Your server reputation matters. Players who are known for being good will get groups faster
  • Will force you to interact with people which will then lead to new friendships and stronger community ties

Con

  • Groups will require more effort to form.

Looking for dungeon is a tool that automatically forms groups and teleports you to that particular dungeon.

Pro

  • Super easy. Click find group and continue questing while the system looks for a tank and healer and 3 dps.
  • Convenience. The system teleports you to the dungeon and returns you to your spot afterward

Con

  • Some argue this system was the start of the end of WoW as it significantly diminished all need for community, friends and skill Server reputation no longer mattered. You could be a jerk and you could suck and nothing would stop you from finding the next group.

  • Makes the world smaller. No need to travel to any particular dungeon as the system ports you there and returns you to your spot after

2

I would make the humble argument that the hate for RFD as this ‘community killer’ is a case of correlation vs causation. Here is my evidence:

In older, more social versions of the game, have you ever noticed what people are talking about in dungeons? It’s 80-90% comments about tricky pulls or strategy. Watch out for Captain Greenskin. Get to the wheel. Pull from a range don’t charge in.

The reason we don’t see anyone chatting anymore is that chatting is rarely necessary to help avoid wipes in modern WoW. And I would argue this reflects the mechanical design of dungeons getting worse. Tricky pulls for example basically don’t seem to exist anymore.

I don’t know if WotLK is new enough for that to be a problem. I certainly don’t remember the game being so anti-social back then.

4 Likes
3

I would argue chatting doesnt happen because you dont know these people and after the group you will probably never see them again. So whats the point? But if they are a solid tank/healer or dps, you may add them to friends and the next day message them and see if they want to group up again. Boom, relationship is born

4

I argue that they’re wrong. The thing that killed the wow community was enabling servers or entire battlegroups and regions to queue together. That created a level of anonymity that destroyed community and enabled toxic behavior.

5

Your server has one of the worst communities out there (No LFD was needed, or around for that to form).

I would love nothing more than to enable servers and battlegroups to queue together, and exclude yours from participating.

That way we both get what we want.

“Community” Lol at this thread.

6

Automated Random Dungeon Finder Pros:

  • You can quest AND do dungeons, instead of having to choose exclusively one or the other - and when you’re done you can pick up where you left off!
  • You have more people to be social with than just your own server if you choose to be
  • Guaranteed group eventually, where the new gatekeeping finder means you may be excluded indefinitely, especially if you play a lesser performing class like Warrior.
  • Authentic to the WOTLK Classic Experience
  • Respectful of the player’s time
  • Inclusive of disabled players who can play the game fine but may not be able to communicate well due to physical or mental trauma
  • Enables character progression, encourages subscriptions and game participation.
  • Players who wish to Manually make dungeon groups still can despite this automated tool’s existence.

Automated Random Dungeon Finder Cons:

  • Due to inflation the price of coffee has gone up, potentially limiting your playtime.
  • Private Servers being organized on 4chan and reddit which are preparing launch in tandem with Blizzard in preparation for the mass exodus of players that want a playable and gearable WOTLK experience with the original automated dungeon finder, will have empty servers, leading to Bobby Kotick getting more money.

Manual Gatekeeping Finder Pros:

  • Boosters will have a new platform to sell runs, empowering pay2win Credit Card players.
  • If you want something specific like two decade old Achievements you can make an Achievement-specific run to find like-minded players instead of trying to force 4 random strangers to inconvenience themselves.

Manual Gatekeeping Finder Cons:

  • Enables racism & bigoted gatekeeping behavior. Players can decline someone with LGBTQ-implicative guild tags and names, or names and guild tags which hint at race, region, politics, or sexual preferences. As such this manual tool is a violation of Blizzard’s own Social Contract, as well as a violation on their policy on Diversity & Inclusion: https://careers.blizzard.com/global/en/diversity-inclusion
  • If you fall a few hours behind the curve or lose a roll on upgrades you will forever be too far behind the curve for anyone to bother inviting you or anyone joining your own groups.
  • Manual Gatekeeping Finder is what killed Retail for all but the meanest and most toxic of players, players who had to become such a way to gear up quickly and efficiently. Toxicity by Design.
  • You can be kicked by the party leader, instead of kicks being a less biased/corrupt vote which is instead done by everyone present. Party leaders being able to kick enables toxicity and creates a new mandatory min/max meta of kicking players which would be frozen orb etc competition before the dungeon ends.
  • If your healer wants a drop off the first boss, and it doesn’t drop, and that healer rudely leaves, you have to manually look for a new healer instead of a new one just magically appearing.
  • Extremely slow, with a high likelihood of no eventual group.
  • Wack-A-Mole Simulator 2022 - You must click groups and spam hard, hoping to bury other player’s LFG-spam with your own to monopolize potential party members. It is it’s own minigame where you must be toxic to be seen and heard. Capslock mandatory for the entirety of WOTLK.

Server Transfers with Name Changes exist so “Server Reputation” or “Community Social Fabric” are not valid concerns or arguments.

Summoning Stones exist so “Teleports to Dungeon” is not a valid concern or argument.

9 Likes
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  • Revitalised levelling / low level content in wrath
  • Made playing alts incredibly more accessible to all players
7 Likes
8

The biggest difference for me is that everyone has ‘equal’ access to RDF - and dps get assigned based on when they queued and can do other things while they wait.

With the new tool you have to actively watch and respond - and many dps will be excluded - not because of their ‘reputation’ but because they aren’t prepared to keep actively watching or tanks or others gatekeep demanding ridiculous gear levels for easy content.

3 Likes
9

My server? The fact you would say something like that makes you just as bad. Get over yourself kid.

10

You do realize your statement is on the same level as racism right? You think yourself so self-righteous. Good lord you can’t even see the irony in that can you? Small mindedness at it’s best.

11

Pro for LFD you get a pug pet.
Cons You really think blizzard will remember to add it elsewhere.

it is funny how blizzard calls LFD a ‘community killer cause im sure the botting/gold selling/GDKPs dont do that ether.

2 Likes
12

Yeah! The fireplace has spat an ember on the rug, lets burn the whole house down!! :fire:

/s

13

Did you seriously just compare racism to bagging out your server reputation in wow?

Oh my.

14

Won’t somebody please think of the children!

15

Really? We’re gonna sit here and pretend we don’t know what your server is mostly known for?

16

Yes because you’re lumping an entire group of people into a category and using it to feel superior about yourself. That, in essence, is the foundation of racism.

17

We need dungeon finder.

3 Likes
18

The biggest difference for me is that everyone has ‘equal’ access to RDF - and dps get assigned based on when they queued and can do other things while they wait.

With the new tool you have to actively watch and respond - and many dps will be excluded - not because of their ‘reputation’ but because they aren’t prepared to keep actively watching or tanks or others gatekeep demanding ridiculous gear levels for easy content.

I actually agree with this. Currently, only select DPS will be chosen and its nothing to do with the person but the class and how well they AOE trash packs.

I was supportive of this new system, but after trying to out on the test server I really think we should stick with RDF

2 Likes
19

I think the biggest con to the RDF is the vote kick system and how toxic it can be.

20

The impact that RDF has on community and social situations is that RDF makes it so it’s not worth teaching or sticking it out with anyone.

In classic, if you grabbed a pug by spamming in town then flew to the dungeon, cleared the trash outside of the dungeon and then zoned in you’ve already invested a lot of time into the group and therefore the other players. You then get part way through the dungeon and you wipe to the second boss because one of the party members messed up. It would take a very long time to kick them, fly to the town, spam trade chat and find a replacement and then get back to the dungeon. It’s easier to just teach the party member about what they did wrong. The cost of replacing a party member is 15-60 minutes depending on where the dungeon is.

With RDF, you can kick a player and have a replacement within a minute.

RDF makes the optimal strategy to vote kick bad players instead of helping players.