Proposed Update to the Archaic Runeforge System

Classes Death Knight
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First, this is not intended to be a rip on the Devs responsible for DKs. The class is holistically in a decent place, with at least one of the specs receiving tuning adjustments with each PTR build and sizeable reworks going into the latest expansion. With many significant quality-of-life improvements brought to the game, the current runeforging system is both dated, and causes numerous pinch points for the class. The two premier are:

  1. The necessity of using Death Gate not only when a weapon upgrade is looted/crafted, but additionally when desiring to change the active rune. This is primarily an issue for Frost DKs swapping between Shattering Blade and Breath of Sindragosa builds and Blood DKs using Sanguination for pure single-target encounters.
  2. Rune of the Fallen Crusader. This has been the defacto rune for every spec for many years and expansions now, persisting through nerfs to it’s healing and several buffs to competing options. This is especially an issue for Frost DKs with three distinct playstyles in TH obliteration, DW obliteration, and Breath of Sindragosa(BoS) (this remains true in spirit today with the dividing lines drawn between shattering blade or BoS).

The current rune system lacks legitimate options, with nearly all roads leading back to Fallen Crusader. This is incredibly impactful to Frost DKs who prefer the TH Obliteration playstyle and require the percentage of throughput to be tuned aggressively in Obliterate’s favor to compete with both the loss of a second runed weapon and subsequent synergy with the talent tree from not having Razorice. My rough proposal for an updated system consists of the following.

  1. Bringing a weapon to Acherus to “rune-forge” the item. This would unlock either a single rune slot on one-handed or two slots on two-handed weapons and prevent it from being enchanted by conventional means.
  2. The rune slots operate very similarly to gems by being interchangeably selected and loaded using an arbitrary menu WITHOUT RETURNING TO ACHERUS.

This would preserve the thematic feel of runeforging your weapons which Blizzard clearly doesn’t want to move away from, while adding further depth to the system by finally providing specs access to flavorful options that always fall short of Fallen Crusader. Specifically, TH frost DKs would be able to use Razorice, Unholy could take Apocalypse for the first time, and Blood could continue to choose either Sanguination or SS Gargoyle. Proponents of DW frost would lose nothing in this example. Lastly, this would round out break points in tuning required for TH Frost to be viewed as a meta choice in any content for which it has significantly lacked representation for most patches since BFA. This is admittedly not a perfect system as it would require some tuning due to the potential increase in damage or survivability possible by stacking two runes on a weapon. However, given Blizzard’s evident willingness to adjust tuning knobs since the end of Shadowlands, this is a reasonably minor flaw.

8 Likes
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I agree change needs to happen, although I don’t mind the need to go to a Runeforge to change. Its an enchant replacement, not a buff, so I get it. Although it would be nice if they set up a Runeforge in every expansion hub, cause why not?

They should incorporate the Rune of the Fallen Crusader into the Spec Tree, as its too hands down better than everything else. It would be nice if they updated the Runeforges available as well, as they have been painfully stagnant.

That being said, we agree, it needs refreshing.

3 Likes
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I get that it’s thematic to our class, but at this point, it’s a stagnant feature with no signs of changing ever. Just toss the system. Take the runes and bake them into the class. There’s a lot of different ways that you can go about doing it that integrate it more fully with play style and will allow for easier balance passes. Plus then it frees up our weapons to join the rest of the game with each expansions/patches weapon enchants.

3 Likes
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I personally prefer even the stagnant feature as it is over baking EVERYTHING in and using generic enchantments. Not just for the loss of theme, but when a new expansion/tier comes out and the costs of weapon enchants skyrocket, I know its not my problem.

1 Like
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Either in the class tree or as a weapon enchant is fine with me. Blizz just needs to balance all of them better, even if that means nerfing fallen crusader. (Just nerf the proc rate)

Make changing your rune with a drop down ability like rogue poisons or mage portals. Quick and easy way to change your runefoege.

1 Like
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Refreshed to what? FC into the spec tree is a mandatory pick and the rest of the runeforges would have to be better than enchants, and then there will be the best runeforge again. Its just circling back around to the same problem while having baseline nerfs due to FC being baseline for all specs.

This is literally first world problem stuff. Something to complain about to complain.

Leave Runeforging how it is, its not a problem.

1 Like
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Terrible take imo. Why even have rune forges at all with how it currently stands.

5 Likes
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Ok? I think the terrible takes are that something has to be changed constantly even things that work without a single problem.

For free enchants? For free enchants… FOR FREE ENCHANTS! Or do you like paying for enchants?

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I don’t think you have a terrible take that it should stay the same. I understand it.

I like the free enchants, I do. It’s just stale, and its pretty much just RotFC. If that’s the case, just build it into the talent tree and eliminate the options. The Runes could be used for more flexibility or customization based on talent trees is the point. They need to add complexity in my opinion. But I understand that others wouldn’t like that.

2 Likes
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Not seeing the issue here.

Would only work if Death Knights cant enchant their weapon. Otherwise you just apply the next best thing since the name of the game is make your character as best as it can be. Whatever that might be at the time, you just apply that to your weapon for the entire expansion. In Wrath it was Berserking, Cata - Landslide, MoP its probably Dancing Steel.

It really just makes DK’s like the other plate wearers, or you have to limit weapon enchants so baking in FC into the specs doesnt bring about a nerf due to adding in more power through enchanting.

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Whatever the nerfs FC will receive, Apocalypse Runeforge will still be bad.

… Like abhorrently bad.

I do agree with Runeforges need a whole lot of makeover. But I don’t agree with removing it.

Unless you want to pay for your Weapon Enchants for some reason that my Demon Summoning Witch will accommodate.

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RotFC becomes a passive talent reads something like ( While your weapon(s) are runeforged your attacks and abilities have chance to proc) now we hav a talent that prevents us from using peasent enchants, and we have the freedom to pick runeforges free from FCs clear dominance, could even rebalance the remaining runeforges to compete with each other.

5 Likes
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That’s exactly what I was thinking, thank you for writing it down. And its not like Blizzard doesn’t balance around it anyway, being able to customize your blade more would be amazing.

4 Likes
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Sorry, was thinking about the talent wording. It might be better / easier to not write it into the spec as a passive talent for Rune of the Fallen Crusader, but to add an endcap to the class tree, where you can apply two Rune Forges to you blades. Very similar to Dragon-Tempered Blades in Assassin Rogue Spec Tree.

1 Like
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So you just get the next best runeforge and then you are stuck with that one. FC passively given and Stoneskin passive increase would be too good to avoid.

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They should replace unholy bond in the general tree with your idea.

Easy fix and allows them to redo the currebt runeforges.

2 Likes
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that also would be very cool idea, would help 2h frost compete with DW as well.

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Except it doesnt. You will still use the next best runeforge. There is absolutely no way around this. So DW gets FC, Stoneskin and Razorice? How is this accomplishing anything at all except changing up the norm?

This is fundamentally different than enchants and wouldnt work without redoing enchants entirely. 1 weapon = 1 enchant. They arent going to give 2h Frost 2 enchants without giving 2 enchants for the other 2h specs, and they definitely arent going to allow Fury to get 4. Its a big mess all because people feel slighted that DW gets 2 enchants because they use 2 weapons.

The runeforge system doesnt need an update.

1 Like
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DW cant get SSG, as its a 2 hander only. They can place those limitations on Runeforging.

Runeforging is fundamentally different from enchants in the same way poisons are. On the code side, poisons, oils, whetstones, and the like are just enchants with a timer. No one is arguing that fury get four enchants, and if you were to talent it, you could have 4 different runeforges for DW frost. The problem that you have here is that you are saying Runeforges are Enchantments. They are enchantments in the fact that they are additional effects placed on equipment, but they aren’t enchantments in the way mana oils/whetstones are poisons. Runeforging is a DK specific ability that allows for the customization of gameplay by modifying a weapon’s characteristic. For balance purposes, Blizzard has said that Runeforges can’t overlap with regular weapon enchant, but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t in the future.

Anyway, why do you sometimes go to the forums to stop discussions? These are just fun theorycraft ideas, no one is taking them seriously. The devs do enough ignoring DKs, just let random people on the internet geek out about what could be. Cause we all know it will never be at the end.

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What? Im getting a little tired of people saying “you dont play the game” when people that play the game doesnt even know the basic stuff of the game.

Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle
Requires: Runeforge

Engrave your weapon with a rune that increases Armor by 6% and all stats by 6%.
Modifying your rune requires a Runeforge in Ebon Hold.

That is taken directly taken from the game.

If the in game tooltip isnt good enough

https ://www.wowhead.com/spell=62158/rune-of-the-stoneskin-gargoyle

No, they are enchants. There is no discussion or argument to be made here. They are enchants. If you apply poisons you can still enchant your weapon, if you apply a runeforge then any enchant that is applied overwrites it, and if you have a runeforge and you apply an enchant then the enchant overwrites the runeforge.

No the problem is that after almost 2 decades people still dont know about a fundamental aspect of the DK. They are enchants.

Why do you guys say things that are just so blatantly false for me to have to correct it so others dont work off of bad information?

No they arent, theorycrafting is based within the rules of the game, this is just wishing the game was fundamentally different. Stop putting out information that is so provably false. We are on the internet and you guys “play the game” so use those tools to actually provide accurate information and data to work off of.

Huh, I wonder why. When people are talking about a runeforge being 2h only (its not) and then saying that runeforges arent enchants, I wonder why they wouldnt take people seriously. I mean do you go into a 40k game and then trying to say the rules arent what they are and then when people call you out on poor information you just say “just let random people geek out about what it could be”.

Why bother then? Why try hyping each other up thinking these things are brilliant ideas when its not even remotely close to what reality is?