Just make tanks less important… but do this by making DPS participation in dungeon knowledge and mechanics more important…
- More emphasis on crowd control (beyond interrupts and stuns)
- Smaller packs, only two to three being tankable. the rest must be crowd controlled
- more tactical approach to pulls rather than MDI style
- Make saps, polys, roots, snares great again!
- Make charms, mind controls, etc more than a gimmic.
- More opportunities for skipping difficult enemies/pulls using player mechanics (warlock gates, invisibility spells, sooths, etc)
- Add more profession made consumables to the game to fill in gaps in missing utilites when using sub-optimal comps.
- I suspect this would also spread some love amongst non-meta DPS classes that have additional/unique utility abilities.
If the weight of success for defeating a dungeon is carried by everyone in the group… i think there would be less opportunity for toxic blame to be placed on one or two specific roles.
10 Likes
They tried this in one xpac. Can’t remember which one, might have been Pandaria? DPS was responsible for a lot of crowd control and interrupts and it was a disaster. In LFG anyway. Don’t even think it lasted a month before the nerfhammer came down.
4 Likes
I suspect this will make things worse, not better.
Any dps that doesn’t get their CC off fast enough or the CC breaks for one reason or another will just add to the toxicity and result in people leaving more often.
3 Likes
So your solution for lack of tanks is to make it harder and take longer? That’s not going to help anyone.
As a long time tank, I can tell you that in Dragonflight, I had a blast in M+ and probably did close to 1000 keys in all the seasons. I REALLY enjoyed them, but I don’t care for them in PuGs this time around. It’s just not fun. There’s no incentive for me to join up and the mount reward isn’t worth it for me. I’ve been casually doing a run here and there with my guildies, but I’m not feeling the same with them as I’ve done in DF.
I’d honestly just rather hang with my guild rather than join a PuG in TWW. Maybe if the mount was different, but it’s just… meh
11 Likes
Hunter pet whack a mole tank spec and SHaman earth tank spec prob solved.
2 Likes
there isn’t a “lack of tanks”…there is a “lack of tanks” that want to pug.
there’s a difference. For all of you who make these whiny lack of tanks posts…>ROLL ONE
23 Likes
So when tanks went from immortal DPS to tanks, thats when it stopped being fun? Just wanting to check, as the mount reward has always been shii, you dont do m+ for the mount, you might do PvP for the mount but not the hideous m+ mounts xD
4 Likes
Cataclysm. DPS have to interrupt because healers can’t heal through it. Worst idea ever. It gave the healers PTSD when it was coupled with Ghostcrawler’s “Make Mana Matter” BS. Honestly, he was one of the worst Dev to ever touch the game. Rude to players. Petty. Overwhelmingly the cause Xelnath was terminated and hostile to any criticism. I’m sure more than one of us remember the whole “CRZ Feedback Thread” fiascos and remember his Xanzul shenanigans.
One could say he was the “Combo Breaker” for ending WoW’s golden Age.
I didn’t give two rips who was the lead developer of the game, until he started in with insulting and lashing out at players during the Wrath Beta and calling people names like “Scared cows” and editing things like Upvote / Downvote counts, to make it look like the community supported his ideas. There were also other reasons which I will not relate here, but once that started; it definitely changed my perception of the company and it’s only started to recover.
3 Likes
The M+ community would not adapt. Original classic wow….sure, these things were a must and even expected. Example a hunter trap and a sap before pull. Thinking og black rock.
That was all before timers were implemented and the need for speed and more damage became a MUST with CC becoming stops instead of splitting groups.
This is an old school way of doing things. The only way I can see it being implemented now is in the new delves where they can try new things.
1 Like
This game just doesn’t work well as a PUG game.
1 Like
They have tried some dungeons where you had to manage CCs across the whole group. That was horrid on PuGs, you basically need to be on voice with competent dps. Like, that is SO not this game for most people.
I enjoyed dungeons most when tanks were ridiculously overpowered - of course I played tank haha - but in the late phaze of BfA, I was an absolutely monster in M+ with the overpoweredness of the void stuff. The downside was that in early SL I felt like the game let me down and I left for 2 xpacs haha.
Let tanks do as much DPS as DPS classes via the Vengeance mechanic from MoP. That would make tanking more fun for sure.
2 Likes
This just sounds like it’d kill pugs tbh
The real deal is it’s a lot of responsibility. To me, it’s a rite of passage that DPS folks take when they want to fix the problem you want to fix: not enough tanks.
There’s another post floating around about how you can’t make a mistake as a tank in a pub mythic; there is so little room in the community for learning and error these days.
Who wants that? How about people treat tanks better and make it a welcome position again?
6 Likes
Way too much aoe spam meta. If they could balance single target like they should,then I’d be all for it. But so many classes have to spam aoe as part of single target, which of course would break the CC. Yeah, game is great, but the balance department needs a few replacement parts.
As pug tank, i still get denied all the time so they can’t be hurting that bad for tanks.
2 Likes
Problems with tanking thus far:
AE threat is poor while DPS class AE damage is at an all-time high. No one wants to focus fire or follow kill orders and then blame you if they pull on a mob you aren’t currently targeting. I try to cycle through the mobs one at a time, but some of these classes have extraordinary burst and may pull anyway during my targeting cycle.
Tank durability is at an all-time low. Seriously, I feel like I’m made out of tissue paper. Incoming damage is ludicrous, mobs have too many debuffs for healers to effectively deal with, and mobs randomly turn and shoot DPS/healer even though you have full threat on them. Too many mobs are immune to stuns so you can’t put a stop to many of the nonsense mechanics.
Many mobs evade bug rather than obey line of sight. How am I supposed to cleanly pull some of these groups when the caster/lookout/sniper/whatever simply evade bugs rather than chases me around the corner?
Some mobs simply cast directly through line of sight obstacles. Dawnbreaker mobs, for example, will just spam shadow bolt through the buildings. I don’t know what’s worse, evade bugged lookouts or casters who can simply ignore line of sight.
It’s simply not fun to tank when your armor is made of balsa wood and you can’t control the pulls properly. There are too many bugs or nonsense with the AI and scaling that I’d rather just play DPS, which sucks because I’ve tanked and enjoyed it since the Burning Crusade (minus Shadowlands and Dragonflight, where I didn’t play at all, and sparsely from the end of Pandas to BFA).
Once upon a time tanks had ample threat and ample durability, but there were still mechanics that required your attention or you would wipe. Seems like a much better system than the current AE faceroll with tanks made of paper mache that we have now.
10 Likes
They tried that back in BC Heroic dungeons. You needed specific groups to go in to make sure you had all your CC covered. People hated how looooong it took to do those dungeons and for measly rewards so…CC stopped being a thing afterward.
Current tuning aside, the tanking problem isn’t an issue with the mechanics of dungeons.
People don’t want to tank for pugs because pug groups expect the tank to know exactly what they are doing at all times with pulling and pathing. Most groups actually aren’t that bad and don’t really care that much if a tank is a little slow so long as they generally keep moving, but sooner or later pugs will ruin your day if you are new and learning.
4 Likes
100% of the reason I never tank is the requirement to learn and remember routes. I’m not sure what they could do to fix that.
My son plays tanks and whenever he’s not playing it’s because he doesn’t feel like putting in all the time required to learn the routes.
3 Likes