Proof for fixing changes to the talent Reckoning

Thanks to Theloras and Storhammare and myself (Exodia) for our research.
These videos show how the paladin talent reckoning works

As such blue cardplace has proven alot of false information such as:

The following things can cause you to drop your charges:
•Mounting up (including gryphons)
•Autoattacking too early (e.g. from out of range)
•Switching Continents
•Switching Weapons
•Losing control of your character (Fear, Scattershot, Blind, Polymorph, Mind Control, etc.)

  1. Auto attacking from far range doesnt remove reckoning bomb

  1. Reckoning should not be removed by weapon swap in 1.12.2

Thesame uploader commenter and player MajorMayhemX of the video in 1.12.2 who wrote the autoattack comment 1 year before the weapon swap comment had this to say:

MajorMayhemX12 years ago

Reckoning: Granted you an extra attack eack time u got struck critical. while not auto-attacking u could store up to 4 of those bonus attacks and release them upon activating autoattack in melee range, thus granting u an instant 4-5 Hit Combo regardless of weapon speed. Reckoning with AP/Crit Gear and high Max Damage 2hander = Insane One Shot Action… Woulda like to see the old reckoning with those 500+ max damage bazookas in action :slight_smile:

MajorMayhemX11 years ago

Every crit you received charged you up with “reckoning attack”, up to a maximum of 4. So you could heal yourself while wearing 1h+shield and then switch to a 2h weapon and get 4-5 swings at once.

  1. Mounting also doesnt remove Reckoning Bomb

  1. Reckoning bomb doesnt need to be directly infront of the enemy to work (the player swung at a 30 degree angle and not directly)

  2. Leaving combat doesnt reset reckoning bomb

  1. -Sit Stacking-

Reckoning is stackable by sit standing


Excellent work. I hope we get a response from a Blue post as many people are questioning these nerfs.


Good work. I really hope we hear more on this. Is this reference client they use something they always had in storage or is it something they rebuilt using code they had leftover?

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Bump for justice.

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I will repost Exodia’s first post in this thread with working video links for playback here in the forum - Theloras :slight_smile:

Thanks to Theloras Exodia(myself) and Durindel or anyone else I have not mentioned

These videos show how reckoning works

As such
Has proven alot of false information. Such as

The following things can cause you to drop your charges:
•Mounting up (including gryphons)
•Autoattacking too early (e.g. from out of range)
•Switching Continents
•Switching Weapons
•Losing control of your character (Fear, Scattershot, Blind, Polymorph, Mind Control, etc.)

technically it was never dropping reckoningbomb charges. It was always dropping the reck counter charges.
The reck counter would reset when any of those spells occurred as proven below.

  1. How stacking works - You can sit from npcs and stack them and attack in cities on horde

How reckoning is currently scripted is completely wrong, an example of how it should work can be found in Loke 2 a famous pally vid from vanilla.
In this video at 0:20 he attacks zeromancer with a few stacks of reckoning, he then targets himself while gaining more stacks (changing target), then aggressively targets zeromancer again at 0:24 while being out of range of auto attack swings (shown by the messages on the screen), he then casts Hammer of Justice, then moves into range to and unleashes a reck bomb the second his auto attack is in range, without him losing any stacks due to being out of range or changing targets.
This is not how reckoning functions at all in classic, if you are out of range you lose your stacks, if you change target you lose your stacks and now for no reason at all you lose your stacks.

Loke 2 - Grand Marshal Paladin PvP (2 of 2)
You then see him target himself again and then unleash another reck bomb at 0:34 seconds.
again at 0:52 seconds and then at 0:55 seconds without disabling auto attack he unleashes a full reckbomb on the warrior the second his next swing is up…
The current version of reckoning isnt even close to accurate and needs massive overhauls… just look at actual footage of the game, rather then making it up on the fly.
Further references of how reckoning should actually work can be found throughout the video as it shows again and again how the talent should actually work.

  1. Auto attack doesnt remove reckoning bomb
  1. Mounting also doesnt reset Reckoning Bomb
  1. Reckoning is not dumping during death which means theres no reason for reckoning to be lost in death
  1. Fear/Blind/Scatter shot/polymorph reset Reck counter not Reckoning bomb as stated by Thakshar

And Frost Nova does not reset reckoning bomb it resets the RECK COUNTER

Frost nova resets reckcounter (not reckoning bomb)

If you look closely in super slow motion you can see that Reckcounter says reckoning dumped
when the paladin is hit by frost nova, yet the paladin didnt hit the mage.

  1. Proof that scatter shot did not remove reckoning bomb hit (proving scatter shot only resets reck counter just like in Thakshars video, however Jamaz did not have the reck counter addon here so it did not mention the reset)

You can see two hits

  1. Proof that fear did not remove reckoning bomb hit
  1. reckcounter states reckcounter is reset, not reckoning bomb itself
    Proof reckcounter states it resets and only Itself, not the ingame spell
    if ( event == “PLAYER_DEAD” ) then
    auto_attack = false;
    reckcounter_reset(“Player has died.”);

That says reck counter is RESET

  1. Reckoning bomb doesnt need to be directly infront of the enemy to work (the player swung at a 30 degree angle and not directly)

(also he isnt very close in range to the target for reckoning when he targets the troll which leads me to believe all of these fixes are not necessary)
  1. Leaving combat doesnt reset reckoning bomb

Reset events from ReckCounter addon:-- Events below are for resetting ReckCounterthis:RegisterEvent(“PLAYER_LEAVE_COMBAT”);this:RegisterEvent(“PLAYER_DEAD”);this:RegisterEvent(“CHAT_MSG_COMBAT_SELF_HITS”);this:RegisterEvent(“CHAT_MSG_COMBAT_SELF_MISSES”);

Yet leaving combat doesnt affect reckoning bomb charges and as you can see by reading it carefully it only says the reckcounter

Please fix blizzard

~ Exodia, Theloras and Durindel
-Yours truly, The sons of Durin’s Folk-


I read the blue-post in the other thread, however it doesn’t address the fact that while attacking and in range of the target, your swing timer will go to zero but you will not get an extra attack. I hope this also gets addressed in the patch.


All I care about, is that getting crit in quick succession is resetting my swing to 0, but not even giving me an attack (extra or normal). My autos are being cancelled out, and if you get crit fast enough you stand there doing nothing.

Also, you can’t turn off your attacks when stunned, unless you spam the escape key, or make a separate key to turn it off. It wasn’t always like this, but it was changed for some dumb reason back in vanilla.

Back when I played reckoning in vanilla, mounting, and loss of control for your character did drop charges (not just the add on counter), but it wasn’t always like that.


Why does the blizzard forums need my grammar to be correct what the heck! FIX RECKONING


Ah yes, my good Paladin friends, the most autistic of WoW connoisseurs when it comes to min/maxing and theorycrafting - as a Warlock I appreciate it, thoroughly, and say autistic with the greatest intent of affection that I can grant it.

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The “reference client” is their excuse to change the game in any way they see fit. Eventually they’ll be backed into a corner, shown to be liars and that the “reference client” could never be relied upon, then they’ll just openly do whatever they want anyway.


Theloras last week: ardently defending recoking exploits and using the 1.12 reference client as trust and justification for it to stay the same.

Theloras this week: ardently claiming the reference client is wrong.

You can’t make this stuff up. It’s clear you just want any advantage you can get for your class, and you don’t care how it truly was according to the 1.12 client.

Working as intended.

/end thread.

wow tools said Runeblade had 1:1 or 100% scaling - they said wow tools was wrong - this has now opened up a pandora’s box for Blizzard for anything to be challenged

come patch 5 and AQ, wait and see just how many Neretzek’s Life Drain proc should scale at 100% of spell damage even though wow tools says it shouldn’t - with this as the prime evidence and especially since all current itemized Life Drain weapons/items have 100% scaling currently on Classic

+571 Life Drain from Neretzek
Published on Aug 13, 2006

this will happen AGAIN in phase 6 when Naxx comes out and Corrupted Ashbringer becomes available along with its Life Drain proc…

git gud

also this


Exodia asked me to post this video clip as well:

3m07s (3 minutes and 7 seconds) auto attack not removing reckoning is again proved in the same video

Excellent work, now the question is will they admit they were wrong and fix this in a timely fashion or just ignore us.


nice, I hope they see this.



Fix Reckoning.


You should see his old posts, we spent over a year telling him reckoning would be this way, but nope.

Very happy with them fixing reckoning to how it was suppose to be.


What concerns me is the blue post mentioned bugs but there was nothing said about it behaving differently inside BGs n such. Which leads me to believe it wasn’t tested or they are just unaware of it.

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Seems quite ridiculous that the paladin having the state that it had in classic, gets additionally boned by bad blizzard implementation.
The last set of breaks coming in AV/WSG are unacceptable.

Blizzard needs to fix this ASAP!


The worst part is it worked fine aside from people cheesing with a start/stop macro and somehow while fixing that we get royally screwed for the entire first week of BGs. This is assuming it’s fixed tuesday during restart which i strongly doubt since the other thread was locked n deleted when proof was presented to prove the blue poster wrong. So i expect to get screwed badly after tuesday reset then get to be weak for another week of bgs.