The problem isn’t even the timer. The problem is Tyrannical. That affix is cancer.
It shows who does and doesn’t know boss mechanics, that’s for sure.
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They should take a lesson from and I can’t believe I am saying this but from Torghast and have it based off some hidden performance metric to get higher I.O but rotate them and not make it known what it is: Such as.
Stand in the bad 10 times - minus score
don’t interrupt a target more then 5 times - minus score
Let the group fall below 30% hp 5 times - minus score
Fail to cleanse a debuff 10 times - minus score
Eat a bosses frontal cleave - Minus score
etc etc etc. Don’t make them huge drop offs, but make them a reduction and don’t say what they are until the end of the dungeon and again they can mix, match and ROTATE them so people can’t try and guess what is plugging the score card. Promotes better game play over all, and ditches because you have no idea what is affecting the over all score or even loot until the end.
And I am not suggesting soul crushing reductions or anything, but a reduction never the less to promote a better player over all.
It shows exactly who does and does not enjoy having their time wasted. Tyrannical gives me carpal tunnel and I hope whoever made it a thing goes to hell when they expire and are forced to run on a Lego covered treadmill for the rest of eternity.
Might wanna take a break then.
I couldn’t imagine feeling so strongly and having so much hatred towards someone over a video game developed for teenagers. Red flags for real.
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Cry about it.
That’s funny since you’re the one sitting around whining over tyrannical being too hard for you. lol
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Problem is that you lay a complaint seen 10000 times without offering a worthy replacement. What will replace the timer so m+ doesn’t become slugfest of overbuffed npcs and bosses that you wipe a bunch of times because they’re overtuned, or rewards get nerfed?
Timer is an important part of m+, if no one offers an equally good replacement, it will not go away.
If your solution is “just remove timer”, then yeah that doesn’t work.
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I dont think this is fair tbh. There are alot of bursty dmg here and there that healer need help from tank and dps using their defensive cds
Only spit balling ideas: Not saying this should (or would) ever happen but the timer is the main issue here it seems. Maybe then scale players gears lower but remove the timer making it harder? Whatever the case the timer is the worst feature here that needs to be looked at.
oh you’re 1 of those. Ok then
I’m progressing on Heroic right now. We had some sub-10% pulls last week on Andy, we’ll get him down this week and wrap up the rest of the raid soon enough.
The fact I have to then go and NOT EVEN have to time a M+ TO GET BETTER GEAR tells me that the timer is fine.
Even that being said, the gear rewards top-out at +15 and even a modestly geared group can complete a +15 with more than a minute to spare.
The timer is fine. (DoS is wayyyyyy too long of a dungeon, but the timer itself doesn’t control that. It’s just too big. And that’s another argument)
I guess I am because a timer is a bad thing? A timer makes for mistakes, rushing, and disbanding. There are other ways to offer a challenge other then “LOOK! A BILLION HP AND A 20 MINUTE TIMER! if you are off by .4 seconds you LOSE!”
As Brocknor said above: You get gear regardless if you complete time or not: But you get people who ditch that are clock watching. Either remove the timer or punish people who ditch/ruin keys then I don’t know I don’t care the fact is some people sadly need to pug: I am one of them with my work time table currently and I am sure many others are out there.
If I spend 25 mins in a m+ and then a dps or tank goes “nah, im done we won’t beat the clock” that is 25 mins that is very important to me because someone was egg battering off to a timer. Yes yes I am very glad for everyone who have normal 9-5 times and can play wow within hours all the guildmates and friends are: As said some need to pug, for various reasons and its simply not fair someone wants to be a jerk and the reason they are or leave it is: the timer.
or it just mean you guys dont know how to route your run better or doing subpar dps that you fail something that’s almost unfailable at low level. Have you consider it’s a “player” issue that you’re failing these keys? I know for a fact that if I fail my key it’s because I’m not good enough and/or did so many small mistakes which ate up the timer. But yea timer are the bad guys and not people ineptitude
But again circle back to the timer: Fine lets agree with you and players are bad, horrid, suck in all shapes of wow life and shouldn’t even be in an m+
I have been in various M+s where we would:
Get to the third boss and timer don’t look good and ditch. - Quote “wow under geared dps, I will be leaving now - we won’t make the timer” (you are in the group the whole time: you don’t see item levels or there hp? you make this judgement call when almost done)
Kill the first boss and a player would ditch. - Rogue said 'we won’t make the timer so I am leaving"
Hell even got the the last boss with 1:50 left on the clock and the SECOND it ran out, the whole group (of friends) ditched (without a word)
Mix and match them with under performing dps, bad tanks, bad pulls, random deaths even me failing to heal in a bad spot (i can take blame to: crap happens) WHATEVER the case: once the timer gets close to ticking down to where “it won’t be timed” the player ditches. Again not always, but it happens way to often.
Now I gave you reasons why the timer sucks: You seem to have a holy shield and sword defending the timer: Can you make me see your reasoning to why the timer is good? Why defend it, what am I missing and how does it promote fun, good, enjoyable game play? Or will you just disagree with me again and explain nothing.
I have left keys like this. Ask yourself why did that person leave? You say “can’t make the timer”. So why can’t you make the timer? I’ve seen group who took 4-5 mins on a fort bosses with me as a tank doing top or 2nd top dps. I wont stay for that group ever. I value my time and clearly these people dont care about other people’s time. They’re just there for the carry. If you call it a no leaver then people knows that it’s a di ck move leave the group. But if it’s posted as a normal run I expect some form of capability w/ the group to atleast perform their roles.
I had a 20+ death in a +20 NW and still time it. But that involves the whole group pushing thru and playing better. At the higher keys people will always call a key if they think they wont time it. But atleast people are respectful about it. At lower keys who knows. People just plain “bad”. Bat plays, bad attitude and yet they think they’re “elite” materials.
Simple it’s makes me learn how to run the dungeon is the most effective way where I minimize my mistakes as to not lose time in the process. Same time if I fail the dungeon I learn how to run it better next time.
EDIT: other thing you guys seem to not get. It’s ok to not be able to complete a key. Sometimes just means you’re either not good enough, not experience enough or not gear enough. Why must everything be “completed” in this game. You take the experience as a lesson learn for next time.
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go off your answer: Yes a timer is good for that reason it makes you learn how to complete the dungeon in the best way possible. That is a fair point.
But that doesn’t answer why that is good or fun or even enjoyable. yes: the timer is good for learning sake although last I checked I finished college some years ago I didn’t think I needed to have school in session for wow routes and patterns: I do enough routes with my day to day job 
Players should be better, Lets agree and agree a timer can promote that: Then you should agree someone who ditches should be punished: If I walked out of a math test because I felt like it or becky from around the way was going to show me why her name can also mean something else: I still fail that math test don’t I? Ain’t that a punishment? So if the timer is a learning tool: Shouldn’t there be a punishment for looking at it and abandoning 4 other people?
Or do the other 4 people not matter vs one persons pride or whatever logic they have for screwing over 4 other people again circled back: over a failed timer.
Yes it does when you get pass that “there’s a timer” mentality. The most adrenaline I get off this game are those seconds to go to complete the key and the whole group pulled thru and time it.
No one say you can’t copy other people’s route. I will be 1st to admit I have never fully designed my routes. There are pull i learn from experience or doing it again and again and again. But there are players who post things in raider.io on good route who are players much smarter than me. I copy the route and tweak it bit by bit to how I like it.
No I will never agree to this. Simply because why did the player leave in the 1st place. If everyone plays well and I mean EVERYONE, then we can talk about punishing players who leaves. But until we have carries, bad players, lazy player in the game who thinks they deserve to be in group contents and simple be carries by players who decide to get better at this game.
But we can also talk about punishing players who plays badly. Which people seems to always ignore here since you want to punish leaver then let’s also punish people who cause people to leave. Fair is fair right?
Bad players WILL never leave a group. Know why? Because they’re getting carried and know they wont get the chance again and/or will take awhile to get another chance.
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From my understanding and research/time on my main and on alts. Most of the toxicity resides in what I like to call the +10/+12 skill ceiling. This is where a lot of the toxicity sits and it’s likely due to some players inability to progress further into the progression system due to their own lack of skill or others. I find once you start actively running 15’s and have obtained KSM people seem to relax and don’t get to upset if a key is bricked. I have definitely run into much more toxicity and arguments in lower keys.
no the m+ system gives you points on the timer