Probably an unpopular opinion, but the timers in M+ are the most toxic thing in the game. They cause more rage quits than anything else. It’s nice to have quick dungeons and strive for speed. More often than not, in pugs, it just causes toxicity. I’d like to see them go or be optional.
46 Likes
I actually believe they are “optional” already, it’s just the case that the community, or what we think of when we think of the M+ community at least, takes the timers as required in fear of real death.
3 Likes
M+ is optional. Paying for the game is optional as well.
8 Likes
theres your problem.
timer is fine
8 Likes
This game has never, and should never, be designed for pugs. Lfg/Lfr are pug content and the only way they could make it work was nerf it directly into the ground and remove anything interesting out of the encounters.
15 Likes
Pugs are the only way I ever played in m+
The timer is what kept me from trying the higher keys, like anything past a +9 is when the timer started stressing me out a little lol.
yes - this. M+ would be so fun without the ADHD timer.
10 Likes
Found your problem.
3 Likes
Ran an 18 COS yesterday and it was clear early on we weren’t going to make time, and everyone just stuck it out.
You can just… not worry about the timer. Like, really, it’s that easy. Just don’t sweat it.
And honestly, once you get in enough of a relaxed state for M+, you can probably find yourself pushing up your IO too. I don’t think about a timer in a 15 for instance, I can have several beers and have a good time and it doesn’t really matter.
My advice would be for players to find like-minded individuals to play with. Find some people who gel with the way you want to play. It’s actually toxic to expect others to play the way you want to play in a PUG. Boomers who demand that everyone “slow down” are x10 more toxic than people who just want to have fun playing the game with people who want to play at the pace they want to play at.
14 Likes
The timer is literally the performance check. Without it, you could just sit there and wait for Hero for every pull and come out with +15 gear when you’re only realistically capable of doing +7s successfully.
It’s necessary if we want to keep M+s lucrative reward scheme.
That said, if you have access to a key, you can do the key and ignore the timer. You just get 1 less piece of loot. It still counts for the vault too.
6 Likes
you can wipe on tyrannical bosses with heroism too. clearing dungeon trash really fast is not that great gameplay.
1 Like
It doesn’t need to be explicitly bad for pugs, though. Back in Vanilla, TBC, and WotLK the overwhelming majority of dungeons I ran were pugs and aside from some nightmare encounters (tanking first boss in heroic halls of reflection as a prot warrior… I still get flashbacks) it was fine and often even nice. The game didn’t blow up as a result and in fact guild membership was at its peak at that point. As pug unfriendliness has increased, so has the number of unguilded players.
8 Likes
I have a better solution.
Run with friends or guildies.
Make them, it will eliminate pug problems.
1 Like
This assertion makes no sense. “As it becomes harder to play solo, the number of solo players goes up”? The only content available for end game up to Legion was raiding and pvp. PvP had “teams” that you had to join and create to carry your rating and raids had guilds to organize.
I’m by no means saying that pug and guild are the options. You’re incentivized to make friends and get invited back. If you’re a low end, take your time player, you can make friends who also play that way instead of gambling on strangers sharing your idea of fun.
1 Like
its why i dont do m+ never have and never will.
3 Likes
It makes perfect sense if you frame difficulty as friction bringing down the number of opportunities.
More pug-friendly content means more players doing more instanced content meeting greater numbers of other players as well as more positive experiences in said instanced content, and thus higher numbers of players hitting it off and joining pre-existing guilds/friend groups and founding new ones. Players don’t specifically need to shoot for finding guilds or friend groups, it just happens naturally, pulling in those who would’ve sought guilds/friends out on their own as well as those who wouldn’t have.
4 Likes
If they removed the timers, they would increase the difficulty. There has to be a reason to get a key upgraded, and clearing it would be the sole reason without the timer. Im not sure which is better until I experience it.
If anything, the key depletion needs to be removed. Why get punished 2 fold for completing a key not in time and even more punishment for not being able to complete it at all.
because all the keys would be upper 10s to 20s and nobody would ever find a low to mid key to run if keys only went up.
1 Like
Timers are entirely optional, if you don’t care for gear or progression. You can basically run any key into the ground and keep it at M2 forever, but than you get nothing out of it, less than what you get from ZM content, so no one will really run it.
When players ask for content without timers we don’t mean just ignore the timer or run heroic or M0 dungeons, we want content that can give progression in other ways without needing to beat the timer. Currently all we have are raids, and those are weekly lockouts, and that’s not fun. You kill the boss and than what? Take a break for the rest of the week?
I think they need to let people do 15’s without a timer. Until that is done, we will continue to see complaints. Some people only care about the great vault and not building up IO
3 Likes