Just a reminder that ret originally got buffed cause Blizzard made a post basically echoing this sentiment, “reroll or respec”.
The community view of rets changed over night to the point where it was stupidly hard to get into even 5 mans, something that rets are incredible for buff or no buff.
Maybe it’s not a good idea to have that mantra and just understand that rets without damage just aren’t brought to anything which doesn’t actually cause them to reroll or respec but simply to quit.
Alright, so when raids filled with half paladins become main stream like was the case with warriors in Vanilla, you can raise some alarms.
Or should we go 2/3rds?
Imagine doing ret damage or worse worse and not having their utility cough
Imagine completely disregarding fury utility which is just as useful as anything that ret brings.
Wait, you are going to say that everything a fury brings can be brought by something else… oh it’s the exact same for ret. It’s almost like everyone in the game has utility!
Just bad faith arguments trying to get warriors to #1.
Yeah basically none of you are good enough, nor are your guilds good enough, for small differences in sim dps to matter.
Same thing I’ve been telling people for years.
Do you have that raid comp? Do you have exactly that gear? Do you have the exact same kill times/latency/reaction time/conditions that the sim used?
I’ve told people to honestly look at their logs and timeline. How many attacks/cds were delayed by .1 second from when they could have been cast? How many times did they screw up a snapshot or proc/cd/pot stack? Then 2nd, 3rd, 5th bis is more than good enough for them because they can’t perfect anyways.
It doesn’t matter if the sims say you can do 8675309 dps on a 180s fight with perfect comp/buffs/play… when your raid does 7 minute kills and 4-6 heals Ulduar.
This entire conversation is for the people who 100 everything. Not the ones with a one time best of 42. That 500dps peak potential doesn’t matter when you’re leaving 5k on the floor as is.
Nobody wants to carry greys. Even Gandalf the grey got dropped off a bridge to git gud.
I guess this is a fair point, but the thing is, you don’t actually see ret stacking like you do with certain other classes do you?
Wrong, Ret has some things that people like to bring on a ret and not another class. Specifically 3% damage increase (Arcane and Bm hunter, lol), Might (because the 0 or 1 warrior is casting either nothing or Commanding lmao), replenishment is good from ret as other classes can use points elsewhere, Vindication is best taken from ret.
Ferals and Rogues overlap the warrior buffs and are all way stronger. Only thing warrior has that anyone finds useful is commanding and its one of the first things to drop if a group is pushing for more dps. If you have a prot warrior you bring 0 dps warriors.
Warriors doesnt have to be #1, but it certainly has to be better than Feral or Ret when you compare the classes strengths and playrate. Paladins are the most parsed class in wotlk and warriors have been the least.
No it doesn’t.
These 3 specs are very close in damage in full bis, and none of these specs are being stacked.
Well, I’d say they should be roughly equal.
But at this point Feral is going to pull ahead - where without the buff they’d be roughly equal.
I think we can all honestly agree they got a bit of unnecessary favouritism there.
Now, whether its worth changing now or not … Probably not.
Give warriors battle rez, innervate, a bop, cleanse, blessings, dsac, hand of sacrifice, hand of salv, lay on hands, bubble, a defensive they can use without penalty like divine protection, and maybe we can talk about this haha. Otherwise yes, for the similar reason rogue does more a warrior should do more.
We don’t need to talk about your dream world.
This is how it is. Each tier is vastly different in the way things shake out, and blizzard has been mostly hands off when roles aren’t bottoming out the meters.
Feral got changed so they didn’t have to do a bunch of cringe bear weaving and troll tanks.
Them being S tier ST dam is a byproduct of a necessary change, not what the goal was.
You can’t use any of those buttons if your goal is maximum damage.
#1 single target while also having some of the strongest aoe, especially on large packs, in the whole game. I have an alt feral. 400 less gearscore than my warrior but does more dmg lol.
This is such a meaningless sentence I can’t even begin to fathom why you thought to put it in there.
Yeah and what exactly is the issue?
They’re a more complicated class. Warriors just do damage.
All of the utility you listed never coincides with top tier damage. You’re either doing utility, or you’re doing damage.
Warriors can play entirely focused on damage. Seems reasonable to me that the harder classes should be better.
Without weaving I wouldn’t call Feral complicated. It was but the buff changed that.
And for good reason.
Even then, feral is still more complicated than a fury warrior is.
Maybe. I mean, my Feral has more buttons, but on the flip side my warrior has more procs to watch and swing timers. Seems about equal in complexity to me.
Either way it’s spilt milk.
I’m merely saying I can see why people feel a bit tilted by the changes. But changing it now would cause more drama, so we should let it go.