the median being low proves my point, there’s only a small minority of warriors who get fed gear like the top guys
even top ferals weren’t competitive at all, the class sucked
BIS is BIS.
Almost everyone gets BIS - not just top guilds. If you filter on ilvl scaling isn’t the factor. There is an impact from scaling and you can see that in the medians tightening when you control for ilvl compared to when you don’t, but it’s not the only factor.
I mean… was it good? No. But it was as good as buffed ret. A lot better on a long single target fight like Algalon, in fact.
He’s using the filters to look at high ilvl only… so no, the median being low at 257 ilvl does not prove your point lmao
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“almost everyone gets bis” you mean like every person gets full bis? not even close to true, especially in ulduar, top guilds gear at like 300-400%+ rates compared to normal people, its even worse in togc, there are entire raids with higher ilevel than the most geared guy u can think of
Yeah but you can literally filter logs on item level which completely removes the scaling argument.
are we really arguing that warriors with 258 ilevel aren’t
going to do more damage relative to ilevel 258 rets than 240 warrs vs 240 rets?
240
fury: 11.1
ret; 10.4
256-258
fury 14.4k
ret 12.2k
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I’m arguing that if you compare logs for the same item levels like against like (thus controlling for the scaling effect from gear) the median Ret in every phase still outperforms the median Fury. The 100 percentile Fury always beats the Ret.
Because there is less variation in performance for Ret from RNG and skill than there is from Fury. Fury has a higher peak and longer tail in performance than Ret does across every phase even when you control for gear scaling.
but every fury in the top 75% outperforms a ret in his percentile, in togc
“the best warriors all destroy rets”
“yeah but if you add the 1000 orc warriors in full 232 gear they lose to rets”
great, roll out the fury buffs, this is being argued in a thread where we take a sim as class balance by the way, a full bis sim playing at a 99.9 parse averagely
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i find it odd that you guys are only comparing ret vs fury in terms of DPS only.
if both classes doesn’t bring the same utility to table then their dps should never be close to each other.
I don’t think that’s blizzards philosophy, but the dps (so far) between warr and ret haven’t been close, should also be noted that sims suck and warrior in togc sims lower than ret but yet completely owns ret because the fights are better for them than ret
Realistically, in a 25 man raid, they bring about the same. Ret and warrior utilities are largely overlapped with stuff you get little to no gains from stacking.
In 10m, ret has a very noticeable utility advantage, but no one is balancing around the 10m experience.
well…if we’re talking about icc? then ret will be very usefull in certain fights, for example “his HoJ on deathbringer adds, Hoj on LK Val’kyr, his bubble sac, his BoP for casters at DB or other fights…etc” tbh i won’t be surprised if i see certain guilds stack rets or if other guilds run with zero fury warriors in first few weeks of icc.
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well you can’t run zero warriors, they have commanding shout which is impossible to replace, you’ll run 1 ret and 1 fury, same as always, yes ret will be very useful but all of those buttons cost dps on a sim, stacking ret or fury is pointless
Maybe not, but they did explicitly say that utility must be considered when discussing ret changes.
Just no, lol, we’ve been over this. Replenishment is actually good and not fully covered by a single survival hunter and spriest, 3% damage isn’t covered by other specs with every mage playing fire, hand spells are very strong when usable, AM is good, more judgements are good, especially because it’s not always easy for an hpal to refresh them, DI is an actual powerful utility spell on a hugely important heroic boss. I really, REALLY don’t think shattering throw and commanding shout (which could also be brought by a prot warr at a minor hp loss) is even in the same universe as everything ret brings that’s not “covered” or is beneficial to have multiples.
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the problem with bringing a prot warrior for commanding shout is that you have to bring a prot warrior, bdk and prot pala are way more capable tanks, most guilds will bring fury
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/1018#boss=629&dataset=95
Just bring a destro lock and get blood pact, look they’re better than fury! Plus you get shadowfury and an extra soulstone!
people and the destro lock meme are worse than the people who don’t understand how replenishment works, the imp has a 20 yard range on his inferior commanding shout and he dies to everything in existence, this is why no guild does this but people on the forums keep suggesting it
Yeah I wasn’t being super serious, that’s also the only boss in TOGC where destro is even close because their cleave is garbage compared to warriors. But I still don’t think commanding shout compares to the myriad utility brought by ret which is still useful even if also brought by another spec.
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utility to utility there isn’t really a competition between ret and fury, fury does more damage and ret does 2x more supportive things, or its suppose to, most of them don’t, because doing supportive things is a dps loss
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