why don’t you leave a place that you hate then? its all trolling anyway right, hit the warrior discord, they’ll set you straight on class balance
I can easily just ignore you and move on with my day. You can troll people who care to have idiotic semantic arguments about how you’re not comparing things by saying they’re “like” other things. Bye.
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ok bye “guy who doesn’t know what the icc fights are like or how long they are” in the class balance thread about icc, cya later, you don’t have to announce ur ignoring me, i won’t care
seeing this reminds me of that obese patrick with chocolate all over his face complaining he’s gonna starve
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Y’all are peak “grass is greener” content by the way.
You aren’t even the first to say this crap in this thread.
To add to that: the sims are 100% parse. The fact is that no one is going to parse 100% on every boss fight.
It depends on the sim. A sim should be averaging the results of thousands of simulated encounters. It stands to reason that it should be possible, with good RNG and good play, to surpass the expected sim result.
Yep, and on a rare occasion it happens.
You won’t see an average higher than those values though, usually because there’s no such thing as a patchwerk fight after patchwerk, people tend to not have full BiS gear, and on average aren’t playing perfectly.
So at best, players usually get close to the values. The better programmed sims are the ones that people sometimes exceed at the 99-100 parse. At least those are spitting out realistic numbers.
The sims run a simulation X times (I usually use 10k) and it creates a range and then shows the average.
This is not a 100% parse. Some of the sims are a lot lower, and others are a lot higher, than the number it gives you. Its just an average.
Often when you find 99 or 100 parses, is strictly because the user had a good crit rating that fight. If Im missing 25% crit (happens often) my parse will not be good. If I even have 5% above what I should w/ my stats, raid buffs, and boss crit suppression, its instantly a very high parse, because when you pair good play with even decent RNG, youre suddenly way ahead of the parse bloc.
But its okay, at least you didnt make the mistake of not knowing what a parallel line was. 
Sims assume you play flawlessly.
Sims assume you have 100% uptime.
Sims assume you have bis gear.
TDLR sims should never be used to balance the game. Just because something sims high does not mean it will play out like that.
And sims assume that every ability is perfectly programmed in terms of damage dealt, talent interactions, etc.
They aren’t always a great representation of real numbers, but are helpful for vague estimations.
Bringing up parallel lines in the first place was just an incorrect view of what was happening though, as classes don’t scale linearly with gear, so the “warriors got a higher % damage boost” was always the more accurate description of what was going to continue to take place, and why warriors aren’t near the bottom in ICC.
WHO CARES god no one on classic gives a crap about your retail “sim” crap that only 1% or less even use, this game isn’t revolved around cringe warcraft logs man go play retail that has raider IO and crap, that’s a better game for you.
You people have destroyed classic, go back to retail, that game was made for your cringe parses, no one asked or wanted balance changes on classic or any of this retail crap in this game, go play retail.
balance changes are terrible, it’s CLASSIC 14 YEAR OLD EXPANSION, Blizzard already made the mistake to give in to 1% of the pop, prob less than 1%,
So does classic.
classic.raider.io
As for Classic WoTLK players, we haven’t forgotten you. We have been informed that the team over at Blizzard is hard at work preparing API documentation for Wrath Classic as well. Hopefully that means wotlk.raider.io will be ready for our adventures into Icecrown Citadel to take on the Lich King!
I also wish we could just go back to not nitpicking over every single bit of logs, but as long as roster decisions are being made bases on what your class/spec can do it will always remain.
sims are extremely useful for finding state weights
you can also compare it to warcraft logs every phase to see how it will work out in reality
if currently the warrior sim is above the ret sim but on 2 of the 4 relevant TOC fights (remove PVP fight, which also favors ret) ret is at or better than warrior, what do you think will happen when ret sims higher?
they are helpful for finding stat weights, and can easily be compared to warcraft logs to see how it plays out in reality.
then how did rogues get more dps that warrior in phase 2?
the “hard scaling warrior” was misinformation
every could see from the sims that warrior scaled mostly in parallel, and especially similar to combat, feral and ret. Only classes like DK and lock did people note as scaling slightly less but it was okay because they started so far ahead.
Many people, including Aggrend himself, memed about “252 kings” and “youll scale” but the reality is that didnt happen. We see it after phase 2 ulduar and warriors were not kings. We’re seeing it now where without the ilvl boost of a legendary warrior is barely middle of the pack, only slightly ahead of pre-buff feral and ret.
Now that ret has a 12% buff and feral had a roughly 20% buff, feral is #1 overall and ret is #2 melee, ahead of bis warrior by almost 500 dps if you use the same sim settings.
That’s messed up, lol. We need all these changes reverted to original values.
Everything is in a good spot going into p4. P4 Bis gear sims do not matter.
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yes, it makes no sense to totally reshuffle the class ranks in a classic version of the game
especially when its low utility classes being made lower and high utility being made higher
the battle rez and innvervate class is #1, wut
can Aggrend play a different class than ret paladin so something else gets buffed?
By the time anyone gets full bis we will all have 30% buffs and Lich King will be dead, with Cata on the horizon and none of it will matter. Easier to just leave glyphs that people already have alone.
There will always be people complaining about Paladins and Druids no matter what their standing on sims claims perfect play will generate.
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If a paladin brushed by someone and farted and it increased your spirit by one they would scream UTILITY and ask for ret to do 50% less dps than everyone. It will never be enough rofl.
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Rogues also got a lot of useful upgrades in Ulduar, but started way higher, so a smaller % boost from the stats can still yield a higher absolute value.
The scaling on rogues doesn’t seem to be carrying forward into these latest tiers like it is for warrior.
You can’t just look at one tier jump and make extrapolations on scaling. Itemization isn’t equivalent in terms of giving what specs want, some stats scale more exponentially than linearly (armor penetration), some class mechanic interactions do so as well.
Sometimes it isn’t until a few tiers go by that you start seeing how stats built up on each other start to take off. Looking how much warrior DPS went up from Naxx to Ulduar compared to rogues was never going to have long term predictive power.
Fury Warriors did exactly as projected. They started off absolute garbage tier (and noticeably under Ret in Naxx), and by ICC BiS are one of the best options around for DPS, well ahead of where rogues are simming (so warriors had to have been scaling better than rogues to do that).
Yes, it’s been repeated often that feral didn’t need the buffs it got, and should have had the damage nerfed along with their rotation fix.
No, ret is not. Tied or lower than fury’s most optimized specs. Any guild using noticeable paladin utility out of ret (DSac) has them noticeably under warrior projections in most optimized sims.
Warrior cleave and mobility is better, which translates to better real world boss results as well.
There’s no ret sims leading warrior by 400 DPS. Ret has also been about tied with warrior for a while, and it hasn’t done anything to fury’s representation.
Warlocks have also been a top DPS class for like, two expansions now with a battle rez and other raid utilities. It doesn’t really matter.