Sounds like you saw a solid feral in action. What you saw was what we Sub rogues loved about Cata, MoP, and even WoD iterations of Sub: a complex and engaging rotation that proportionately rewards you for the amount of effort you put into playing the spec. Wrath ferals are enjoying a rare era where they’re both very fun to play and competitive dps.
50% reduction? People are only asking to remove Aggrend’s buff to the class he plays by adding a non-original glyph to boost the class’ dps by 12%. We dont need a nerf, we just need a reversion to the 3.4 data…
Also, I didn’t think that being able to BoP, lay on hands, dsac, cleanse, freedom, salv, offheal, demo-shout automatically, hand of sacrifice, be the best class to provide 3% raid dmg debuff to boss, and often bring the inspiration, + blessings of which kings is special was comparable to farting. 
Warriors brings sunder (better brought by rogue), 4% phys damage (no raids uses arms warriors, its below meme tier dmg and always on a combat rogue), 5% crit (feral is better dps and has more utility, so can bring feral for it). The only thing warrior has is commanding shout, which can also be brought by an imp but the warrior one is not limited by range, so bringing 1 warrior for it is decent. So, some raids bring 1 prot warrior and 0 dps warriors like Beefbar (wolrd first ulduar guild).
The only reason you bring a warrior is 1) damage (that they dont have 2) help reduce DEs (bring 1 for commanding shout and to reduce DEs is good or 3) he’s a good friend and youre willing to carry his booty.
Paladins have 4-5 raid slots including ret all expansion, meanwhile warriors are brought 0-1, and if you have a prot warrior you take 0 dps if you were a serious guild. Now that TOGC is all cleave youre seeing raids usually bring at least 1 and not 0 anymore, sometimes 2, but their damage is still worse than dk, and in same cases on warcraft logs, already worse than ret in ToC. lol.
they simply scaled harder, their items added more dps. Started above warrior, and still got more dps that phase.
it does for combat (if you compare ilvl, they dont get a legendary this phase, they do at the end of cata though so you have to compare ilvl to ilvl available for scaling comparisons).
armor pen is worse than strength at lower quantities and better at max with a hard cap of 1400. It does not scale wildly different than a base stat, but when youre min maxing youll obviously go for the best stats relative to other gear. Base stats and secondary stats have always bounced off each other.
It absolutely did. Its not a straight parallel line but some classes like combat, fury, feral, etc had issues with the armor pen nerf in original wotlk. Originally it required less armor pen per % removed than in 3.4.
WIthout a legendary warrior is not one of the best in ICC. Ret was always projected to be extremely strong but it still got a 12% buff. Your logic fails here as a result.
This is false. Fury is 450 behind with the same sim settings.
Without Dsac ret still has a lot of very strong utility, and youll always have it for 3% raid damage.
I loaded both sims profiles being shared on all the discord, including the paladin discord, and then changed the settings to be the same and fixed the warrior spec because no one in the top 100 uses that spec and its an obsolete spec and as a result got 450 less dps than the ret sim with the same settings.
You dont know what youre talking about here. You cherry picked some fake number and are running with it.
If currently on warcraft logs in a cleave-centric raid, out of 5 rights, ret is ahead of warrior on 2, and in a virtual tie with 2 more at the 90th percentile. Ret gets more DPS in ICC than warrior. TAJ is insane, their t10 is insane, and they also get more dps out of shadowmourne (LMAO). Pally discord showing ret gets like 20% more out of it. like 1100-1200 instead of 950. What do you think is going to happen?
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Oh man, that’s a lot of stuff you get from 1 holy paladin and don’t need more of.
And, for the record, if that glyph were removed, you just drop the ret, and use an arcane mage. You are advocating dropping ret back to meme tier spec output for utilities you might use once per night, maybe, but probably not because you have a holy paladin, or other classes.
2% of it is, anyway… literally anyone can bring 8% of kings.
Warriors can also cover battle shout. With ret back in the dumpster, you probably just bring a second fury to cover it. There’s no advantage to a ret doing it.
For a brief moment they gained a higher absolute DPS gain but smaller percentage growth.
Warrior got continued better percentage growth, and thus, scaled harder over the expansion.
Neither is ret…
Ret with a legendary doesn’t even catch warrior without a legendary if you take out the glyph.
Unless you lose less DPS by keeping your mage arcane, which you guaranteed would.
And none of Ret’s “very strong” utility actually matters for boss kills outside of DSac, which the spec that compares with warrior doesn’t even have.
You don’t see people talking about how good BM hunter is because of all the pet utility they can have! The DPS isn’t good enough to justify the spec. Ret would be right back down in those ranges if the reverts were done.
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INB4 “nuh uh clown emoji”
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single target in ToC its worse than frost mage, any guild that wants 4% phys brings combat
does that prevent a single dude out of thousands of parses of doing main character syndrome parse strats at rank 1? no lol
but look at 99th percentile, Arms in WotLK is worse than Ret in Vanilla practically, meme level dps.
You said BEEF BAR doesn’t use DPS Warriors and you also said Arms is below meme level DPS. I linked you an Arms Warrior from BEEF BAR 4th overall across all encounters in ToGC. I just clicked on another one of their raids and he was 5th overall.
They didn’t use one in their fastest Ulduar speed run.
Which is really no longer relevant to warrior’s current or future performance.
Yea but arms and fury are miles apart in their performance right now.
Or you could main a retail ret as I do… unfortunately. I sometimes wish I didn’t.
Yeah, but my point is BEEF BAR is using an Arms Warrior and he’s in the top 5 overall in multiple raids. The green parsers on this forum take raid comp and meta specs more seriously than top guilds. You have one chance to play this game for fun and try things out and everyone’s too scared to do anything but spec into the meta and never deviate for any reason whatsoever on easy content they’re terminally bored of. I’ve seen people say they want to play Arms but they can’t because it’s “below meme level dps”, then we’ve got Dysebomb and Ahlaundoh playing it in top guilds.
On ST maybe, on cleave they’re almost identical. Ahlaundoh’s 245 ilvl Arms Warrior alt with 18,320 DPS on Twin Valks compared to his 256 ilvl Fury Warrior main with 19,410 DPS.
Yeah, what you can successfully do content with and what is optimal are very different things.
People tend to hyper fixate on the optimal comps. They can definitely help a guild that is borderline on getting a kill or not, but it’s not going to matter to the success of a top end guild like that, so they can screw around on their splits before they focus up and optimize for their speed run weeks.
I wouldn’t recommend arms to lesser guilds, as the slack does have to be picked up elsewhere, but it can be used successfully if you are exceeding the metrics of the fight.
That’s also true. Even off specs do occasionally have the time to shine… like rogues using prep blade flurry builds to get crazy twin valk parses.
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Feral isn’t magically harder than other specs, that’s a bit of a myth at this point.
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Looks like a parse setup tbh. You can’t really look at TOGC since it’s uniquely has cleave on every fight.
“We will be fixing Sweeping Strikes to be properly normalized during Empowered Light/Dark on Twin Val’kyrs (the recrawl might affect arms warrior historicals due to this)”
There was some adjustments needing to be made on WCL side early on during that fight.
I think you might not understand how sweeping strikes works on that fight either.
I’m going to assume it’s some interaction with empowered and something being counted where it shouldn’t be. You can also just look at his Jarraxus parse and my point about Arms and cleave still stands.
Congratulations. You figured out what they want. Same as what happened on Retail and the same thing Paladin players have dealt with since 2004.
Its always the same story and always the same reason. And always will be until the last WoW server is shut down.
They hate you. Who cares why, their reasoning is emotional and irrational. You cannot counter emotion and irrationality with logic and rational thought.
Accept that they hate you and that even if they gain nothing from your losses directly, they will still celebrate them.
I don’t understand your point. A cleave class doing well at cleave?
You do know that guilds will have multiple runs and that warcraft logs is constantly changing rules to counter cheese right? Guilds letting their main character player cleave Algalon adds forever, spawning multiple adds on Jaraxxus, etc.
No serious runs brings an arms warrior. Its the worst dps in the game that isnt a tank lmao.
In one moment, you say that putting Ret back to 3.4 values makes in meme tier, and then you defend arms being the way it is, dead last place and well below ret in its worst possible phase. Ret will be good in ICC without the Reckoning glyph. Its now #2 melee with the glyph.
The buff was too much. It should have never happened. If they can leave fury warrior at the bottom of the meters in phase 1, and then middle of the pack in phase 4 without the legendary and middle/upper with it, they can certainly leave high utility ret where its all expansion.
This should be classic. Not Aggrend’s private server. He plays ret, so of course it gets buffed. The class which will be strong in phase 4 with TAJ, T10, and Smourne wasn’t amazing in phase 2. Its amazing in phase 4 without the buffs. Now its overpowered.
This is false and demonstrably so:
You can take the L like an adult and just stop now.
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