Also they nerfed it more because of npc forced respawns and the lag that it brought to the servers. No one could move = dead as soon as you use any portals.
If they were just going to reuse the same thing then they should have just done a lich king 2 themed expansion. Proven by classic, old stuff does well if done right. Randomly appearing zombies 12 years later seems like a questionable decision. They should be weak though not the full force from before.
Not that AoC lol
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all of a sudden everyone cares about immersion when it lets you screw with other players.
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Well awesome is subjective.
I hear this all the time. “Oh this makes the world dangerous and aggressive”… because you can’t opt out of it. "i think a game world can be dangerous and aggressive without other players trying to kill you.
Exactly, if they want to not go with this event, it’s their choice.
How is making it default off means it’s nothing important? By that logic, is raids nothing important? is World PvP nothing important? Is pet battles nothing important? Would you prefer these things to be default on with the only option to quit to make them seem important?
Deathwing shows up and toasts Azeroth and he’s in a raid that is optional to play, does that mean he’s not important?
I was talking to the OP, though at this point, i think the OP chosen to avoid a debate… so… 
Exactly. I don’t understand the need for an extreme reaction to somebody asking to opt out of it, as if they asked to remove it too. (and before you “pro-eventers” reply to me… nobody wanted this removed, opting out isn’t removing it, and the only people i’m seeing who wanted it removed is you guys so…)
It kinda throws all the arguments of story/lore out of the window once you have infinite timelines and time traveling in the mix, doesn’t it? 
Guess that’s why they call it window pane. 
Sure, but that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about whether or not having zombie invasion be optional is a danger/aggression toggle. Being able to turn off players attacking you is undeniably being able to make the environment less dangerous and aggressive.
You might not like that version of danger or aggression but it’s wrong to say it’s not danger or aggression.
Personally I don’t think it should be, if I’m being honest. I genuinely believe that taking a week or two to do stuff outside of cities won’t kill anyone.
Instead, however, they did exactly what those of us who pushed back against the complaints thought they would. They nerfed the whole thing instead of creating an opt-out. Not because we were magically prophetic, mind you, but because that’s just how Blizzard does things. We knew they’d do this, and we were right.
It’s about world permanence and the overall order of how it’s expressed. The world is having an event. Having that be the default makes that the default experience; it’s what’s actually happening.
Having an opt-out means you’re choosing not to go with the actual world events. Having an opt-in implies that you’re choosing to do side content, or that it’s not the default content (not the actual events).
This is a terrible example, Deathwing also had an undeniable, irrevocable, widespread impact on the world. Would Cataclysm have had as much meaning if all the changes in the world only happened if you chose to go opt-into seeing them?
I don’t think so. Permanent or impermanent, actual effects in the world that can’t be ignored have more impact than events that can be ignored. Deathwing, as I said, can’t be ignored and therefore is a terrible example. Unless you’re a newer player (well “newer”) and don’t recall, the entire world was different before Deathwing and we lost that world in the transition.
I talked about this above but it amounts to:
“Whenever people ask for a way to avoid something, with enough effort behind that asking, they just remove the whole thing.”
Blizzard doesn’t really do opt-outs. They’ll just scrap the whole thing if enough people complain. That’s why there’s always push-back to these kinds of requests/complaints. We didn’t want them to take the whole nose when the only issue was a small mole.
We seem to have been right, too. They’ve taken the whole nose.
Raids are a danger/aggression toggle.
PvP servers are a danger/aggression toggle.
Okay.
But if somebody wants to turn it off, that’s their choice. And this same can be said with PvP really.
I didn’t say it’s not danger or aggression. I said you can have it without the other players trying to kill you, i meant that as an addition, not a replacement.
…Okay.
…How exactly the scourge event, even if it’s forced, creates this world permanence then? Your talking about this permanence, but how this scourge event alone even creates permanence before it turned optional? Other then being “memorable” since memories are subjective?
The world is having a raid.
The world is having a battleground.
The world is having a scenario.
Well isn’t events just side content anyways? As much i like the legion pre-patch, how many zones is it actually happening in really? It’s hardly the world here.
Being the non-default content doesn’t make it bad.
Except, they don’t want to remove the whole thing. Your doing the thing with thinking opting out means your removing it entirely. If people don’t want to do the event, then they should be allowed the option to skip it entirely.
Well this time, they made it opt out. Infact, i would imagine this isn’t the first time they did a compromise. looks at Blood elves and void Elves customizations, Zimdormi’s time travels, and Legion/BFA intro skips
And that would be understandable if the people are asking for it to be removed.
Except that what didn’t happen. They asked for an Opt out, and they got an opt out. Not everything, every single time needs to be extreme left or right side here.
Going back to the world, story and lore here, Naithus bought up this good point here, and i think it’s something we should keep in mind here.
Blightcaller wasnt wearing a face diaper of shame! He needed to die lol
Not really, since they nerfed the hell out of it.
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I’ve said for years there’s something broken about their feedback system. Either it doesn’t deliver the feedback properly or its filtered by too many layers or they put too much emphasis on the wrong types of player feedback.
The game’s design has suffered as a result. Pulling back and looking at all the expansions over time, there’s been less and less emphasis on consequential gameplay and a tightening to safer and less disruptive gameplay. No more so than in pre-expansion events which should show-case the coming expansion but instead offer up very mundane content now. As well, we see less innovation and breadth in expansion content and more emphasis on complex, convoluted character systems as a filler to give players something to focus on instead (and that’s a whole other discussion).
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Raids are not world events. Apples = \ = Oranges.
That’s literally the argument here. Historically, no, they don’t. Blizzard doesn’t really do that. They just nerf the event into the ground and no one gets a choice.
Why people pretend like they have a choice to turn something off when there’s no toggle is beyond me. You don’t have a choice in this situation, all the complaints have done is ruin it for everyone. All that’s happened is that Blizzard swung the pendulum hard the other way and now no one gets to experience it.
The event revolved almost entirely around that specific danger. Asking for it to be removed is asking for the danger to be removed. Short and simple. We can see this clearly by the event now being toothless with zero meaningful engagement. And, no, farming stationary rares that drop loot on a 6-7 hour cycle is not “meaningful engagement” for a prepath event.
It’s not optional, it’s nerfed into the ground. Even in WM it’s nerfed into the ground. There’s no either-or anymore. That’s the point.
That said the point is about the in-game history and continuity. With what little remains of the event being relegated to a mode that isn’t even the baseline game, you’ve removed the event from the primary continuity. It’s not really part of the official story anymore, not really.
The experience of memory is subjective but an event that everyone went through would be remembered by everyone. Whether you liked the event or not is not part of the question. A unified experience is the optimal route, otherwise there’s no point to the story.
Apples = \ = Oranges.
You don’t seem to know the difference between a world event and instanced content, which is not intended to be a world event.
World events are primary content.
This is like saying that the most recent expansion is side content because it only takes place in 5 out of 60 zones.
It makes it part of a side story, not part of the main story. Which is bad. The content might be good but the presentation is not.
No, of course not. The complainers didn’t want the event removed, they wanted it placed somewhere they didn’t have to deal with it. Fine, whatever. The problem is that Blizzard was never going to do that and the complainers were too naive to see that. Blizzard was always going to nerf the event into the ground to try and appease the complainers. Only after that would they move it into warmode.
What none of the complainers will admit is that not only did the opt-out turn out to be irrelevant now, but the opt-in is an opt-in to an event that isn’t worth engaging in now. Not because we can’t gobble up PvP noobs and lowbies but because it’s been so heavily nerfed that there’s no point.
This is the result of the complaints, directly. Despite it not being what the complainers wanted, it’s what they wrought. It’s what we knew they’d bring upon us and why we pushed back.
Don’t pretend that the complaints aren’t complicit in the end result being that the WM event is still trash compared to what it should have been. Because it was nerfed. Prior to being put in warmode. Because of the complaints.
Please note that they nerfed the heck out of it, then made it opt-out. The event in WM is nothing like what we had on PTR at first. It’s still completely ruined because they tried to find a middle ground first.
Only after the event was nerfed, and then wasn’t unnerfed after the opt-out was created. It’s still ruined for those who want to opt-in.
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We cant re live past in game events anymore because it would hurt to many people feelings today. Take that as you wish but its the sad truth.
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If the pro event crowd had spoken out for it to be full force but WM only, maybe they would have gotten that. Instead they insisted on it being no opt out and got the nuke to oblivion.
A lot of people were calling for it to be WM only as a compromise. Let’s not try to erase the narrative here. Blizzard didn’t want to make it WM only until they saw that there was no other way. Even people who were against the event called for it to be WM only and I saw plenty of people who wanted the event in general saying they were OK with that.
Despite preferring it be a default experience I’d have preferred it be WM only and full force than what we have now.
Sorry I should have said “most” to avoid the NoT aLl PrO EvEnT pEoPlE trigger.
At the end of the day the only thing I can meaningfully say is that throughout the games history when people complain it tends to result in the thing being complained about being ruined for everyone.
Personally I can’t understand anyone who would sit down and say “I don’t like this, and despite it only being a two week long event I’m going to threaten to quit if they don’t 100% make sure I don’t have to deal with it.” That’s the epitome of selfishness to me. It’s two weeks, just go play somewhere outside of the main city.
What’s more is that there are other ways of handling it, too. I suggested, at one point, that they could make Boralus and Zuldazar “zombie free” zones, allowing players who don’t want to play a hub that’s safe. That got shot down so hard it’s not funny.
Both sides had people who simply refused anything but what they wanted, but most people seemed to be in the middle. Personally it’s disappointing that the naysayers got their way and now no one gets the event. If I’m being honest, yeah, I kind of blame them for that; they had plenty of options for avoiding it but simply refused anything but 100% what they wanted. I’m sure the same would be true in reverse, that they’d blame the 100% pro-eventers for what they were dealing with.
The difference? The naysayers would have had a rough week or two and it would be over, it wasn’t a permanent thing. Now? The pro-eventers will never get the experience they wanted or have the memories they’d have had. Taking away an event so some people don’t have to deal with it just doesn’t feel fair, I’m sorry, and I’m going to be irritable at the people who forced Blizzards hand.
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Hard to decide who’s experience and memories are worth more I suppose. But now we all get the shared memory of a very beige invasion!
I was on the full force WM only side, and I definitely felt like a minority in the various threads about it at the time compared to the full force no matter what crowd. IMO given blizz’s penchant for nerfs, we’d all get a better shot at something good by being vocal about actual compromises.
I just wanted it to be left alone…god forbid we ruin the AFK market experience for everyone. So many people cry that WoW doesn’t have engaging world content and look what happens when its given.
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But don’t raids matter in a story? If were talking about the world and lore, why not include raids in the mix? Do they not exist?
I don’t see how nerfing something rids of having a choice. Even without the choice to opt out.
The event is on Warmode. And that can be toggled on and off.
How do you know it’s ruined for everyone?
Just because it’s nerfed and optional, doesn’t mean you can’t experience it.
Except nobody wanted it to removed.
Asking to opt out ≠ wanting it removed.
Isn’t it just a subjective term at this point?
Either way, what does it matter if you think the event is toothless? I mean it’s completely subjective to say that, don’t ya think?
To touch on it briefly, it’s not the most exciting thing to hunt rares in general.
It is strange to me that taking into consideration that some people hated the quest length for being too short, but yet they hate in order to get all the rares, it takes too long. I mean, you don’t have to get all of them. If you think something isn’t engaging, then don’t do it.
No, i would argue it is, since it’s optional to do the quests to begin with that event.
If were talking about ghouls, then that’s on warmode. You can keep saying “it’s not optional, it’s not optional, it’s not optional…” but it is. I really don’t know what your talking about here about it not being optional, so i’l try to stop addressing it because i gave it enough of my say here. Of coarse, you’re gonna keep saying it.
That one we can both agree it is nerfed to the ground, and it shouldn’t need to be.
Nobody, i repeat nobody asked or wanted the event to be removed. infact, this event isn’t even removed. It’s just you thinking that because it’s optional, it magically doesn’t matter to the story, world and lore.
Now, if Blizzard did never put this in the two weeks left for this pre-patch, then yes, i would say they’ve removed it. But that’s a thing that we have to wait and see. And personally i still think it’s way too early to tell it’s removed. Considering what’s going on the world (irl) and such.
What do you mean if we don’t have that, theirs no point to a story?
If somebody doesn’t want to experience that story in that event, they opt out of it, it doesn’t harm the story itself in any shape or form. You saying that “it doesn’t have a unified experience means theirs no point” doesn’t make it so.
You keep throwing up the “false equivalency” non argument, but were talking about world, lore and story here to give a justifiable reason why the event needed to be forced. But it’s inconsistent of you to think bringing raids, battlegrounds, and scenarios for certain storyline events is “False equivalency” here. The Raids, Battlegrounds and Scenarios happened in the story and lore whether you like it or not, and their all optional to partake. Of coarse it’s comparable to this event. So why not bring it up? Do Raids, Battlegrounds and Scenarios magically doesn’t matter in the lore anymore? does it not exist in the world and story of World of Warcraft? Aren’t you kinda saying “the lore doesn’t matter” by saying “false equivalency” to them? Why are we talking about lore,story and world then if your just gonna exclude what is convenient to you? 
Need i also remind you that WoW has established itself to have infinite timelines and universes?
Except their not.
Questing is.
Well since were talking about story and danger here, doesn’t it make the legion seem very weak and non threatening for just attacking just 5 zones over and over instead of all 60, including cata zones, pandaria and such? They are doing it in the scenarios, but why aren’t they doing it in the pre-patch?
…No it doesn’t.
Making something optional doesn’t magically mean it’s a side story.
I think you mean “never going to just that.”.
Except they have nothing to admit.
You just think there is no point. Just because it’s optional, doesn’t mean it’s pointless.
Except they literally done nothing wrong. They don’t know Blizzard was gonna do more then just that. I honestly can’t blame them for that. Nobody should honestly. Also you do realize complaining isn’t just gonna work? This goes for everybody too. The only reason i would imagine Blizzard did changed this is because a lot of people left because they don’t like how things went in PTR since they can’t opt back into the normal gameplay. Which is worse then complaining.
Okay.
It’s still opt out. Just because it’s nerfed, doesn’t mean it’s trash or pointless. You think it’s trash and pointless.
Your acting like finding a middle-ground is bad. This is the kind of thing on why i dislike tribalistic mentalities in general and this pre-patch created. This “you with me or against me” attitude that is a liability in the gaming community.
I don’t wish to be against you, because were all playing the same game. If you dislike the event, then simply don’t play it.
It’s still opt out. I’m not sure what kind of point your trying to make by saying “They nerfed it and then they made it opt out”… Okay? It’s still opt out. Your just telling me your opinions on it by saying “oh it’s ruinned, ti’s trash, theirs no point” and stating them like their objective facts.
To close off here (well i say it’s gonna be the last thing i said here, but personally speaking, i’m just tired of this topic in general) because at this point it’s clear your mind won’t be changed (i given the benefit of the doubt to enough people in one lifetime), if you like or hate the event, fine. If you want to criticize it, that’s fine to. But to villianize people who wanted to opt out is going too far here and i think the community should do better to maybe learn to find a middleground with each other, and not treat this like it’s a point scoring competition by trying to 1 up over the “complainers”. I don’t recommend anybody (this goes to the side who wanted to opt out too, everybody) to villianize anybody for anything. They are just trying to play the game the way they want to. And that should be fine with you and everybody else.
And i say this as somebody who genuinely did enjoy the event that i was disappointed in Blizzard nerfing it to the ground and they should’ve done better to improve upon it, such as balancing the surivor and zombie damages, fix old bugs and so on. But i also believe it should be optional if somebody doesn’t want to play it. Fun is subjective. Everybody has a different idea on what fun is.