Every PvP casual like myself knows that premades are a huge issue at the moment.
Premade groups are too OP.
The “if you can’t beat em, join em” solution proposed to the player base isn’t exactly viable if there’s no groups around with enough priests, hunters and generosity to invite you. Not to mention the fact that waiting for 6/10 of the enemies to respawn while your FC caps 3 flags is a grind, not gameplay.
We want something practical. Removing some of the incentive for queuing with a full premade group is the only solution that I think both sides can and should deal with.
Reducing the rewards for queuing in a raid group wouldn’t change the queue time at all, wouldn’t impact smaller groups, doesn’t complicate much of anything on the side of the developers(!!), or the understanding of how the queuing system works for the general player base. You already get penalized in exp rewards and quest objectives while in a raid group, so why would rep and honor gains not already have this baseline debuff?
It would barely change the meta for the min-max elitists as I’m sure 33% isn’t much for a group that can pump out 100hks and 3 cap within 10 minutes would net less reward per hour than a pugger with 40-60% win rates and 20+ minute games. (Don’t check my math cause I didn’t do it) More importantly, it would encourage casuals to feel like they can actually play the game casually. (Inevitably producing more pugs for premades to stomp. Win-win)
It just incentivizes people to feel like they can start playing the game on their own time rather than spend the better part of an hour at a certain time of day to find a group with low enough standards to invite non-bis/non-meta players. It’s just a matter of player acceptance and I truly think everyone would prefer this solution over any of the other more complicated proposals.
Casuals feeling like they have to wait another phase or 2 for the rep grinders to finish up so they can actually play an aspect of the game seems a bit discouraging to say the least
Reduced rep and honor gains by 33% from PvP Battlegrounds while queuing in a raid group.
There would be less premades if the people who don’t treat every aspect of the game as a grueling grind felt like they could explore other viable solutions to their goal. But where it stands, even the people who prioritize fun over efficiency feel like they have to trade off the more fun aspects to compete… Not catering to casuals is what has ruined every version of wow thus far
I feel like a fool for even replying to your comment given you wrote it within 15 seconds of the post going live and clearly couldn’t have given it much thought
They already said they did not want to remove people’s desire to play with full teams , so you need to make a system including that.
I’m all for “solutions”, but everyone’s solution just takes away from other people. No wonder Aggrend hasn’t done anything
I suggested a “full premade q” that rewarded 3x the yield and value than the regular bg q
As long as there is value in the current bg pool, you’re gonna get camped on the gy even by 5 man premades - no, it will not be “more fair”
The only way to get rid of the “problem” you are experiencing, is to literally remove the value and yield from the standard q and put it somewhere else. A full premade q
The only thing ppl keep suggesting is to take everything away from other people who “don’t q solo”
Make a premade q that is too valuable for premades not to want to q into, and they will have no reason to play in the current q. Smashing pugs will be value suicide if you give them a separate w with huge yields.
If you make changes to the current q, they will work around it. And yes, 5 man premades will still own just as hard as 10 mans. No it will not be more fair. You may think so, but that’s not what’s gonna happen
You understand that each team would have a 5 man premade on it. So it would no longer be 10 randoms without a single healer vs 3 priests 3 hunters and some geared dps. It would be a 5 man party with randoms vs another 5 man party with randoms.
Sure people would try to find ways to go around the restriction with syncing queues so they end up in the same but this would happen way less often than the current 80% of the games are 10 man meta premade vs 10 random solo queue enjoyers.
It’s called war games and it’s already in the game. People don’t use it because they’re not doing 10 man premades for epic competitive PvP action. They’re doing them to stomp pugs while everybody afk’s for the max honor/rep per hour.
Remember, the claim of the forums is “every game is a premade”.
Let’s say theoretically you remove raids ability to q. Now all premades are 5 mans. The result is going to be the same. All premades will just be 5 mans, and if you aren’t in the game with two 5 mans, then you’re on the game vs 2 5 mans as 10 pugs or 1 5 man.
Nothing changes at all in the grand scheme of things.
Plus, OPs suggestion allows you to still q as 10. Even with a nerf, premades are still gonna do what they’ve always done. They will win their games in 7 minutes but they just have to play more. Not that big a deal. Nothing changes in his scenario either
There are quite a lot of people doing wargames and the community is growing every week.
This imaginary scenario where people don’t want to fight premades is entirely made up. From my experience, there are MUCH less premades dodging and giving up than there was in regular classic. I’ve encountered WAY more oremades fighting out the whole game than classic did.
If slightly less people premade, it makes it even more rewarding to premade as you’ll have even faster average games, and even a 33% drop in honor is still better than solo Q.
And if somehow raid Q is awful with the rewards you just Q with 2 5 player raids at the same time.
yes. because the math on this is that it is 615%, not 33%. you would have to increase or decrease rewards by that amount or close to in order to effectively disincentivize organized pugstomping. and no1 is going to make that large of a tune, ever
ill point you to my own thread with an actual sollution that wouldnt penalize anyone and increase the rewards for losing even 3-0 games that would be better for everyone.
Would not stop them. Reliably stomping on your grind is still a net gain over having completely random teams and maybe losing more. I reckon we need a solo queue.
Yeah, it’s taking away a bit, but 33% is pretty forgiving.
The end goal isn’t to do away with premades all together, but to reduce the amount of premades by keeping other options viable.
I think a lot of people doing premades have no desire to pvp in the first place, so making it a requirement for them to face another premade (and actually perform well) would be taking a lot more away from them in my opinion. I do like the option for increased rewards when queuing premade vs premade, though.
u would need to reduce rewards by ~84% to disincentivize premades.
another problem this solution ignores is pvp rank grinds, staple in classic. this solution completely derails grind groups and instead relegates r14 to pugs or even longer pvp grinds, which blizz has openly tried to reduce. it just wont be implemented and wouldn’t solve anything
But in your scenario, nothing really changes at all. Premades are still going to premade. All the nerf does is make them play for a longer time, which is even worse for pugs.
Even if it makes some oremades form into small groups, that’s still more easy games for oremades
Yep. Premades will always exist. You can make an entirely separate premade q, but they’ll still stomp pugs unless you move the reward incentive to a higher yield by joining the premade q
You MUST have separate q
Because Aggrend doesn’t want to remove the flexibility of what you q up as, ultimately is the vibe in getting
this is a social problem caused by the age of the game, not a solvable mathematical problem. for example in pve, now that wow has been around for 20 years every1 knows minmaxing and rotation. the mysticism is gone. same in pvp. and none of the long term players are going to want to accept being willingly nerfed for being intelligent, social, and loyalists to the game
sorry you didnt get in the ground when the majority of players were headless chickens, but most ppl know how to capitalize on the rules, and theyll bring their friends to do it. either separate the casuals from the elitists permanently or give casuals cheap catch up mechanics or the gap only widens
