Preach A Conversation w/ Ion... Additional Thoughts

Community General Discussion
102

The problem is when you’re having a discussion and it’s theory against an argument of practice.

The conversation was “over” the moment that Preach started bringing up pug rules and windwalkers. Windwalkers have killed mythic N’zoth, and have completed +26’s for every dungeon, yet players won’t accept them over DH’s because of how player perception works in this game.

This is the same cycle the general forum goes through every expansion cycle. Higher end players said that Frost Mages would be ignored because they weren’t Fire at the start of Legion despite them being good enough. BrM was instantly declined in M+. We said that Azerite would cause people to get declined, it did. We said that essences would get people declined, it did. We said corruption would be a massive point of contention, it did.

Here’s a really cruel news flash. You didn’t need good legendaries throughout all Legion to cleaer LFR, you don’t need corruption OR essences to clear LFR Nylotha.

The moment the general population see’s any discrepancy for a system, regardless if they need it or not, they revolt. This has happened since MoP pug where most of them required the cloak for flex mode.

Ya’ll have tried it since gearscore in Wrath. You’re not changing the culture. You will be judged and declined for this decision. This will happen regardless of how easy or hard it is to change. This will be like every other system, effect the top 1%, and the bottom 80%.

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103

So are you saying Blizzard balances the game around being 100% optimal? B/c you don’t need to be 100% optimal in order to mythic raid.

  1. The game isn’t developed for world first raiders. Blizzard doesn’t put a time limit as to when these raids HAVE to be cleared.
  2. Blizzard values role playing, and player choice over optimization.

If you feel that you HAVE to be 100% optimal to play the game, you are playing the wrong game. Go play Overwatch if that is what you are after. WoW isn’t about making everyone a clone of each other. That is not the focus, it is quite the opposite rather. Again the game is NOT balanced around 100% optimization. You can defeat raids without having the best covenant ability for every single encounter.

105

The “try hard” Ralph argument is seriously beyond lame and ludicrous.

If I’m playing ultimate frisbee I know it’s not a professional sport, I know I’m playing in a league with other amateurs, and I know the only prize at the end of a match is the losing team buying beers.

That said, if someone showed up to play in clown shoes, I wouldn’t want to play with them. They could maybe catch the frisbee amazingly well. Throw it even better. But when it came to running and getting into position, they just plain suck because of a stylistic/aesthetic choice they made.

“I think I look better in clown shoes, and I can do other things in the game well. The fact that if I can’t do everything well shouldn’t matter. Some of this is my personal choice, and it’s just an amateur game anyway, tryhards.” - someone I will never play with.

Just because I’m not professional in a game that is, by many accounts, completely silly and least deserving of a competitive nature…it doesn’t mean I WANT TO LOSE AT IT OR PLAY WITH PEOPLE WHO TAKE IT LESS SERIOUSLY THAN ME.

You’re completely allowed to go play your own match with other people that want to wear clown shoes and tight dresses and tuxedos. You can still play the game, and you may even win against some “tryhard” groups from time to time.

But it doesn’t mean I have to play with you, or invite you to play with me, and, as hard as it will be for you to believe, the majority of people who play amateur and bar-league sports…they want to win and take it kinda seriously. Even though it’s not professional, there is no real glory, and there are no real prizes.

The majority of people in those leagues STILL take it seriously, and don’t want to play with people making personal, aesthetic choices that hinder their ability to play at what others consider to be their best.

Tennis shoes and gym clothes aren’t going to make you a better player. But they are going to give you your best shot at being the best you can be. And if someone says, “I could’ve spent $50 on gym clothes but I’m just going to play in my clown shoes and business clothes,” me, and many others, will not play with them. Because they couldn’t even make the smallest effort to give themselves the best shot of success they can.

Same goes for this game. The majority, despite Ralph’s trolling and troll friends here, don’t want to play with people that won’t even put in the smallest effort to play at their best in a given situation.

The issue gets enlarged, however, because for many of us — even those of us who are not bleeding edge progression raiders or gladiator PVPers — we now have to view the “bare minimum of effort to play at max efficiency,” as creating an entirely new character of the same class and possibly same spec, just to be optimal in a given area of the game.

It’s not enough that you showed up to the game. If you aren’t dressed for it and think it’s ok to play in your work clothes, I’m not going to actually allow you to play. Because you didn’t take the minimum effort to take the game we’re about to play as seriously as I do.

Even though it’s just a game. Even though it’s not professional.

You don’t take it as seriously as me, and the majority of people do (and the majority of people DO want to win and DO want others to play at least on their same level with a same level of dedication), then you’re free to play with people like yourself. No one will stop you.

But the majority of people don’t have to play with you, either.

106

In what dream world because I ve yet to see someone get declined for their talents, azerite, essences

And you yourself admitted this is a community problem, Ion admitted high end will never be truly balanced so meta slaves will of course copy high end even though they have no idea what they are doing and be toxic to the one’s that don’t.

The problem is a community one, and unless blizzard homogenize the game to death by removing the rpg and turning into overwatch they can’t do anything else balance wise, community being fixed is the only solution

Game is designed around not being good at everything, you are supposed to have strengths and weaknesses and Ion confirmed this.

If you can’t do that then you clearly shouldn’t be playing WoW

107

Lol I’ll take what I can get. Wish it would hide quotes too!

108

Go look at the listings right now and find one for M+ or Heroic Ny’alotha that is akin to “LF disc priest BiS essences, Rank 15 cape (max Corruption Resistance), x-number of Expedient R3, y-number Severe R3”

You’re just making yourself look silly at this point.

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109

The thing is many people are too lazy to even check your r io page and instead type “checking rio” to scare off people.

The main discrimination that ever happens is due to class and possibly spec, anything after that is too small for people to even bother checking.

110

WOD was the dream X pack of preach and asmogold. Nothing was forced rep didn’t matter, no busy work, all raiding all the time we saw how well that xpack went.

111

The one this that was super cringe about this interview was when Ion asked Preach if he would be happy if everyone had identical gear, spells, etc without any differentiation at all and he said “Yes”. Dude should play league of legends or Overwatch.

I welcome more diversity that is missing from this game. Really increases the playability by having 4 different covenant experiences.

The bottom line too if you only want one character is that YOU CAN switch covenants after 2 weeks of grind so you can experience all four on one character.

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113

This will still be the case, except not only will there be a right way to play, since covenant abilities and soul binds aren’t talents and glyphs, the players will also be locked into certain aesthetics and questlines as a result.

It will be the players fault, but also blizzards for implementing such a laughably horrible system. Great way to drive people away from the game.

114

Ewww I ll never be a disgusting healer

Because you have healer specs doesnt means you are supposed to play them if they dont fit you as a person.

My wants are quite irrelevant when the lead dev clearly told you, YOU ARENT SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD AT EVERYTHING, you have strengths and weaknesses, cant and shouldnt change for every occasion.

If your group of “friends” demands you play something else for their sake, clearly they arent your “friends”

115

If you play something that puts your group at a distinct disadvantage in content they want to clear, are you really a good friend?

117

Because Ion gave those examples and he was right, if all you care about is skill and competition you shouldnt be playing low skillcap games like wow where non skill elements will ALWAYS affect your performance and instead should be playing games where only skill maters.

118

I am primarily talking about the Covenant abilities, I am ignoring the soulbinds portion of the discussion due to lack of knowledge. Please be aware of that before replying.

That in of itself is the reason the current system is so bad. Cause Blizzard is trying to stop something that will happen anyways.

Even if you lock the covenants & said abilities, players who want to “min / max” or just want some guidance at all. Will still go to websites like WoWhead or IcyVeins for guidance on which covenants would be right for them. This whole idea of locking them to prevent that is genuinely a waste of time as that’s what a good portion of players have done for years and will continue to do.

It’s odd to me that Blizzard is all of suddenly trying to change that. Considering one of the ones I didn’t mention is content creators like Preach himself does that for a living some times. YTubers make guides all the time for Classes when a new X-pac or patch comes out.

There is because there isn’t an icy chance in hell Blizzard will get the balancing “right” as already shown in Beta / Alpha. Where some covenants are just genuinely bad for some classes, forcing the idea of not having a choice once again.

Case in point, the need to be able to swap abilities when is necessary.

I am primarily talking about the Covenant abilities, I am ignoring the soulbinds portion of the discussion due to lack of knowledge. Please be aware of that before replying.

119

Because clearly having the devs design the game the way they want us to play it is better, right?

/s

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121

You’re in for a huge disappointment there.

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122

They have no choice, you arent allowed to be ultra optimal anymore, unless they play one type of content or unless they level and gear 4 of each class they wont get to be optimal at everything which is great to hear : )

They need to learn to play the way the game is meant to play.

And considering unless you are world first you can easily do mythic or mythic 20s with any class or spec you should know if a group keeps failing it is due to comp or someone choosing to play for fun the spec they enjoy instead of being a meta slave.

I am not gonna rewatch the entire interview, watch it, multiple times he says you are supposed to choose your strengths and weaknesses instead of changing covenants to fit the situation, and conduits are most likely gonna be the same now based on his last answer
And in previous interview he also says you are meant to gravitate towards a build, copying icy veins to be spriest #5522 isnt how you play the game.

Why are you even arguing when you havent watched the video? If you have do point out how i misinterpreted his message when he says that ; )

The game outside of world first can be completely by any spec, they are good enough to balance specs to do mythic or m15-20s.

If people dont invite x spec then this is a community issue just like some meta slaves were refusing non vers tanks for a 16 even though vers tanks are needed for 25+

123

That’s not how it’s going to go.

The bulk of people are going to wait before jumping in and are going to pick what they feel is best for the content they do.

Then they’re going to do that content until they want to do something else, in the hopes this debacle is solved with an easy respec option.

And if it isn’t the forums are going to explode with complaints.

124

So you telling me people who raid wont ever do m+? Or m+ players wont ever do raids cuz they are sub optimal? Because if you dont do that you are losing a huge part of the gearing process so something tells me you are wrong and they will do m+ even if sub optimal.

Or that they arent gonna do casual pvp simply because their covenant excels at ST raid damage?

These people who cant play without being optimal at everything should leave, the game isnt designed around them and Ion clearly stated you are meant to have strengths and weaknesses, period.

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125

If they rolled something that is undesirable in M+ and can’t find groups they won’t be playing M+.

Haven’t we seen this already with dead specs in M+? Look at the representation figures. It’s abdundantly clear people reroll for the content they want if the spec isn’t suitable for it.

Aka destro for PvP, BM for M+.

They’ll leave. Or they’ll reroll.

It’s not a good aftertaste.