adding my signature to this
lol @ the replies here.
“hey so c’thun spawns tentacles in the wall and you can’t target or kill them and they also one-shot everyone and c’thun also bugs out and becomes permanently immune forever.”
“lol we r warriors we r stronk we just dps it to deaf noobz cus leet”
1 Like
it was considered “impossible at current gear lvl”.
the first mathematically impossible meme fight was 4h. followed by kael’thas, then yogg+0. and LK+0%. the only one undefeated on this list being Kael’thas. I suppose the 18min enrage Illidan also but that was fixed after like 1 day.
c’thun was never considered fully impossible.
Kael was such a good fight, that was one of the best raids of all time. tempest keep
1 Like
Sometimes his mechanics would pop in a way which couldn’t be played against intelligently.
If a giant eye stalks spawns in the stomach and starts beaming people, and your unlucky in that he doesn’t devours people with interrupts or damage on the first 1-2 devours that’s just pure RNG. Maybe it happens maybe it doesn’t happen.
If a giant tentacle spawns partially in a wall and you can’t target it? I guess you can just try and position people in a manner to play around it.
Imagine how hilarious it’d be if C’thun sometimes just used dark glare and then never stopped using it until everybody in the raid was dead.
LMAO you’d be like “COWARD!!” Then get incinerated.
Alternatively, none of those buggy things could happens and a guild could roll in their with a giant pile of fury warriors or fire mages and just smash him due to class and consume stacking. It’d come down to who stacks more broken classes and buffs/consumes harder.
Maybe the upper eschelons of guilds care about seeing ‘pre Nerf C’Thun’ but I’d be surprised if most guilds did.
It’s not like Pre Nerf C’Thun is a totally different encounter people have lost access to. It’d be different if the C’thun encounter was like Heroic Cho’Gall…were if you killed him on a harder difficulty you got to fight an entirely different boss in the instance after.
I mean do you really trust the current Classic team (assuming there is one) to recreate the original encounter as it was?
This is the same crew that can’t even get spawning the dragons of nightmare right and you want to give them a ‘hard mode boss encounter’ assignment?
Aside from the current team probably not being capable, it’s pretty well established the company doesn’t want to exert any more effort after relaunching Classic than they have to in order to keep it running.
This isnt a passion project or a ‘love letter to the community’ as one of the current talking heads put it at the last Blizzcon. It’s a cash grab they realized would be a good idea after the community bludgeoned then I to releasing it as interest in their actual new titles/content waned.
3 Likes
Makes no sense. There are some minor changes but the point stands. Ion never accounted for the min/max’s that people do today. He math wasn’t optimal.
He thought it was on, we thought he was right. Guess what, we were wrong. Its being proven in today’s game.
For him to say “impossible”, but not account for all the possible compositions and various buffs/synergies is a hyperbole itself.
A very good thread to recognize the underestimation of the modern day neckbeard.
Yeah see this is a perfect example.
So many people I talked to thought you’d need fire resist for Rag. The tanks need fire resist, but because everybody does so much more damage now due to updated talents and itemization that didn’t exist in early Vanilla…how the encounter was done by a majorty of guilds changed.
People brought a ton of fury warriors and frost mages. They farmed a lot of fire protection potions and consumed heavily while making attempts.
The person who thought.“LMAO you’ll never kill Rag week one” didn’t think that because they believe d leveling to 60 and getting into MC would be hard. They thought it would be hard because of the rep you need everyone to have in order to douse all the runes…and the fire res they though t everybody would need time to farm in order to do Rag.
In reality, you can MC an NPC in BRM and get a large fire resist buff. Also, only the tanks really wanted FR. Everybody else’s damage was higher in Vanilla than it was in Classic. On top of all that, you had people realizing right off the bat that brining a ton of fire protection potions was important for surviving Rag burst damage, increasing healer margin for error (needing less healers) while having each individual increase their own longevity. This increased the damage you could do to Rag In a smaller window of time.
Vanilla WoW raid comps were different. People approached content differently (not getting every world buff and consuming aggressively).
My guild cleared everything except Kel Thuzad. We didn’t use flasks every raid in AQ. We didn’t even use flasks in every raid in Naxx. We did bring potions, but people often didn’t bring enough for progression. The only time I recall if using world buffs regularly was in late Naxx (for Sapphiron attempts).
We may have dropped Ony/Nef/ZG hearts before going to a raid but there was none of this:. Get DM buffs, get Songflower, get Hakkar buff, get Dragonslayer buff…head log out until it’s time to speed clear the instance.
1 Like
Pre nerf C’thun with no bugs would be interesting and realistically probably doable by most guilds that could get to him.
Pre-nerf C’thun with bugs serves no purpose aside from people wanting to watch raiders waste their time on twitch.
Previous poster mentioned a list of “impossible” boss fights and I am legitimately curious about Kael since as I recall he was the only one not bug riddled that was never downed. What was so nuts about his first rendition?
He was probably one of the most bug riddled end bosses. That instance had a fair amount of problems.
You wrote this giant wall of text, all saw was “I am to scared” and “I only want easy things and things that make it easier”…I didn’t read your wall of text because you speak cowards talk.
The major one is that he would keep a threat table during his entire fight, but was untauntable and untargetable. Meaning tanks had all of 8 seconds to overcome like 15 minutes of healing aggro. It never really worked out until he was to clear his table upon pull.
Also, that poster skipped chromaggus, who was vastly overtuned on purpose for a few days. rumor has it one guild found a bugged spot where 2 or 3 mages were able to stand without him noticing somehow. 3 1/2 hours of frostbolts later, they had a corpse but instead of a loot table, they got a visit from the GM. Nefarian literally wasn’t finished yet. Can’t verify this one, but it sounds like something blizz might do.
On the thread topic, IIRC there were actually 2 patches nerfing cthun. The first was the bugfix that stopped things like untargetable tentacles and random nukes the raid had no answer for, the second was more related to tuning that was prompted by Ions oft-quoted post(note how this post makes no mention of any bugs).
It’s notable that Ion never said the overall numbers were impossible, but the randomness on the targets and conflicting responses required by the mechanics made it it an unreasonable ask even of bleeding edge raiders on the hardest fight in current content.
1 Like
Your reading comprehension isn’t particularly good then.
Feel free to lobby for pre Nerf C’Thun’ though.
Wanting bugged content doesn’t make you ‘brave’. Obvious troll is obvious…
No it is, I just chose not to read your cowards talk…
The key is, he said it wasn’t possible (without proving ever that it’s actually impossible). He pointed out how the mechanics of the fight make it so that (for the first time ever) your DPS have to split their damage across multiple targets while managing their positioning.
MC and BWL are basically “DPS stands in 1 spot and spams their damage rotation” for almost every fight. AQ40 ups raid difficulty to “Your dps have to move while doing damage and prioritize targets. Where they stand and how they move matters”.
Meeting those requirements is very different from just having the encounter not work properly.
The devs could make the encounter harder just by making adds spawn more frequently…do more dmg…or have more hp.
They should frankly make it so that when you zone into a raid instance, it wipes all your world buffs instantly. That would increase.the difficulty for a lot of guilds without needing to even change the boss. They could make him ever harder by just increasing the spawns/values on his abilities too.
Can’t prove a negative. It is literally impossible to prove beyond all doubt that there wasn’t some jank strat mixed with a stroke of luck available to them that would allow a kill. That doesn’t mean the fight was released in an appropriate state.
Also, “manage your positioning” is just as vague and useless as your “he didn’t prove it impossible” point. This isn’t the movement meta of MoP: Many classes lose a lot of damage while playing whack-a-mole, and this is a fight that punishes stacking harshly while requiring that certain adds die very quickly, so it’s quite likely that some stacking occurs.
Your point being?
Why would they do this? If you want your own raids harder, just ask everyone not to world buff.
Myself, personally?
I’d see it backfiring in a bad way.
We’d be stuck with the broken encounter for a while, and it would not take but a few bouts of him bugging out to totally wear out the patience of everyone and turn into a bad publicity scene.
If they wanted to poke it up on the PTR, that would be one thing, you dont have to be there.
When the guy bugs out for the 4th time in a row, you just walk away and head back to the normal game.
1 Like
I both believe it would be easily killable today, and that it wouldn’t be a good idea to implement it.
Not exactly overflowing with details, but here is what i can find for AQ changes until the end of vanilla
1.9.0
The Gates of Ahn'Qiraj
The Gates of Ahn'Qiraj will house two massive, unique dungeons -- the Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj, a 20-man raid dungeon, and the Temple of Ahn'Qiraj, a 40-man raid dungeon. As players delve deeper into the mysteries of Ahn'Qiraj, they will discover revelations of the Silithid infestation and their shadowy masters, the Qiraji. Players will have to complete a world event of massive proportions before they can open the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj on their realm.
1.9.3 anyone have details for this patch?
Raid & Dungeons
Various bugs have been rectified in the Ahn'Qiraj dungeons.
1.10.0 last patch that seemingly addresses bugs?
The Plague effect from Anubisath Defenders and Anubisath Sentinel's is no longer amplified by +damage gear.
Spawn of Fankriss will now enrage if not dealt with in a timely manner.
Fixed a bug that was causing Battleguard Sartura's low-health enrage to have very little effect.
Removed the stacking acid from the Flesh Tentacles in the C'thun encounter.
Digestive Acid now increases its effect over time during the C'thun encounter.
Fixed a bug that could allow for the Digestive Acid debuff to be removed.
Lowered the amount of knockback dealt by Giant Tentacles.
Tentacles should no longer spawn on players who have just been knocked back by a previous tentacle.
1.11.0
* If the Twin Emperors have been defeated, Arygos will teleport players to their lair.
* If Ouro has been defeated, Arygos will teleport players to the chamber where the dragons are being held prisoner.
* Arygos will not teleport players that are in combat.
1.12.0
Ahn'Qiraj
Lieutenant General Andorov's Aura of Command should no longer generate threat. This will hopefully prevent him from pulling aggro on the entire wave, leading to his untimely death.
Hive'Zara Hatchlings can now swim.
Egg Explosion will no longer burn charges from spells such as Lightning Shield.
It should no longer be possible for Emperor Vek'lor and Vek'nilash to Unbalancing Strike or Arcane Burst immediately after a teleport.
Sure thing, lets also work with 1.9 talents too.
ten characters