Its not that the boss was truly hard it was the ridiculous amounts of bad luck rng that made it impossible, like you could wipe several times because the boss was a buggy mess. bwl was this way on launch originally to and blizzard changed that because bosses like chromag was busted bad. I mean maybe some one could get lucky, but dont know how you kill stuff your suppose to kill when its spawned clipped into something and wrecking the raid, it was a buggy mess, maybe its possible but I dont know. look at firemaw, one of the easier bosses in bwl and it worked peoples guilds in the launch in classic because the thinking behind how to gear and play changed so much. people scoffed at the idea of resistance gear, but if you want the big numbers its something you do for that boss. Who knows maybe pre bug fix cthun is possible and I would love to see if it can be done now with far higher warrior dps, but it may be impossible still… Only way to find out is if blizzard gives us the chance to try.
Only the best guilds in vanilla ever even attempted pre-nerf C’Thun. Getting there was no small feat.
That being said you can still find attempts of the fight in YouTube. If you fight to make out the grainy texture you’ll see lots of keyboard turners… lots of mages, warlocks, and priests going oom just standing around using their wands…
The best guilds of 2006 =/= the best guilds of 2020. Maybe it was mathematically impossible for those guilds considering the overall ability they had and knowledge of the game and their classes. But I guarantee it would NOT be impossible given the current state of gaming.
PreNerf C’thun would definitely die but it wouldn’t be the best guild who downed it. It would be the one who won the lottery with tentacle spawns in killable locations not picking off the raid that wanted to bash their head against it the most. It’s not a numbers game the way the Ion memes suggest. It’s an RNG game.
This depends very much on which rendition of C’Thun we want to play with.
Can it be the one where he just insta kills half the raid party, and then throws a quarter of the remaining members into the sky?
And then puts the remaining healers and dps into his stomach to contend with tentacles you cant touch (but they can touch you)
I dont think a lot of people get that, as they probably did not get to see it 1st hand.
Between a bugged lazer eye that would oneshot people en-mass because they were standing on the wrong Random pixel
And the tentacles spawning inside your own body, that ejected you into the sky
And the non targetable tentacles
And being digested in the belly, and not being able to hit them and just having acid stack on you
You did not have much of a raid left to punch that c’thun with
You lost them all to some nifty bugs driven by an evil rendition of RNG.
It would have been comical, if he at least validated repair bills
Doesn’t make sense. It would only hurt the average raid group. The hakkar kill is an example of true try hards. These players represent a less than 1% of players, and they used a very specific comp to achieve the kill. Many guilds are going to struggle in AQ with just with the nerfed version of c’thun. I don’t see any reason to cater to the extreme minority on this one.
They will blizzard stated it was believed impossible never stated it was impossible.
Either or. Today’s DPS levels are far beyond that of yesterday.
Seriously.
Of course they are
Vanilla remained static for all those years on those other wow places.
All that time to dissect and analyze.
During vanilla the game did not stay static, it kept advancing on you, you did the best you could with the knowledge you had and kept moving.
One thing 15 years can not prepare you for though is
Evil_Eye_RNG=(RND)0-100
if Evil_Eye_RNG > 1, oneshot (raid_count/1.897)
He has some friends too (not sure how it got through internal testing really)
Remove that, and maybe it could be pulled off with practice, and probably a massive amount of flasking potting buffing gear adjustments etc.
Probably be hard, and most would fail, but i’m ok with that, not everyone can kill a god.
But when said god cheats…
If they did decide to do this, it shouldn’t be the only version of C’thun available.
I’m not interested in playing broken/buggy/overtuned content, just to prove it’s technically possible.
If your group wants to, it shouldn’t force my group to have to.
Hard is Ok.
It’s when the hard is including broken/bugged mechanics that can not be defeated, then things ain’t so swell.
I mean C’Thun is an Elder god.
One can’t really feel to bad at getting defeated by an Elder god.
Long as he doesn’t cheat.
Ion’s math did not take into account the amount of sweat/hour people are capable of these days
Except for the part where he did cheat, endlessly, whippin and dippin with the lasers!
I’m not playing classic to get world firsts.
If you’re going to have pre-nerf c’thun just to see if people can do it, I’m extremely not interested. But I’ve realized 90% of this forum is people voting for the one change they care about with no mind for how it affects other players.
So rather than arguing no, that’s stupid, don’t add pre-nerf c’thun, I simply request regular old 1.12 c’thun be available the whole time for people that aren’t masochists.
His math at the time was spot on with an emphasis on “at the time”.
Ion for all the crap he takes is incredibly intelligent and he’s a major reason why WoW theory crafting exists in the form it does today.
His thoughts on the fight at the time were more nuanced than the meme that has been generated. It was also done on the gearing basis of the time which doesn’t exist anymore. He wasn’t approaching the fight under the assumption that a raid could or should field 10-20 Warriors fully world buffed in gear that actually maximizes their DPS.
The funny thing is there is no “math”. This is alll the “math” he presented.
Basically, over the course of every 60 second period, the encounter requires your raid to do roughly 230k damage in order to keep up with the various spawns
sooo yeah…no way to verify. no work shown. literally a number and a time restraint. I am not sure how this “math” became so vaunted in WoW forum history, its really confusing how anyone could have ascribed much credibility to this “math”. Let’s then consider that its not a math problem at all. Was it one in 2006 before the fix? Perhaps. Today, most assuredly not. What is the problem with pre-fix cthun then? The encounter is broken
i remember in vanilla that Sometimes Ragnaros submerged early to glitch & never came up, C’thun glitching to stuck and stopping taking damage…etc
imagine if this was original vanilla & Apes trying ragnaros first week of release just to realize that Oh…“he went down earlier than normal & never came out” gz 1st week wasted, 2nd week again? Wtf…3rd NO F*ckthis…etc
----> result would be Yay mc getting cleared in classic after +3weeks!
Cthun glitchs was hilarious! (bugged phase2/bugged lazer eye 1shotting anyone/non targetable tentacles…etc) so even with min-max mentality & class buffs due late patch in classic the Cthun kill in classic wouldn’t be that easily unless you’re lucky.
speaking about ZG hakkar no priest kill that happend first 8min of release! i’m going to say 1thing, where is that rolling stone in classic zg :)? it does not exist atm, and nothing in any patch note said that it was removed! So why it did exist in zg vanilla but not in classic zg? blizzard having stealth nerfs & idiots believing that classic is vanilla.
What do you think I mean by neck beard?
These people know 10x more about preparing for a fight then an average raider.
Really, think about it. 5 Priest Hakkar was defeated minutes after the instance went live.
Yes. My point exactly.
One of the major reason the fight was “fixed” is because of numerous bugs, such as tentacles spawning in the stomach. It would not be an enjoyable encounter if brought back.