Talk of negotiation during a time when the Horde is losing on all fronts would have certainly put the Horde on a backfooting at the bargaining table. However, only fools take diplomacy off the table entirely. Or, in the case of Sylvie, she took it off the table purely because her goal was to drag out this conflict as long as possible to augment its death toll. I’m not certain the Horde was in a desperate enough situation to go such a route, but if they really were going to lose the war in several weeks … it is a better alternative than stubbornly going down with the ship.
As for why the Horde and Alliance created an armistice post Sylvie departure. Sylvie’s gambit in Naz’jatar apparently did quite a number on the Alliance’s ability to wage an aggressive war. Saurfang’s gambit preserved both Horde armies that were still being fielded. Anduin’s primary objective with this conflict was attained, when Sylvie was successfully removed as an influencing factor of the Horde and Forsaken. Genn’s mistrust of the Horde still exists, but he predictably could give a crap about the red team now that its no longer an obstacle to Sylvanas.
TBH, the only group who has a reason to stay invested in this conflict on the Alliance side is the Kaldorei; and they can not defeat the Horde alone in their current state.
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Okay I lol’ed so hard. Anduin has had a thing for beef since Pandaria after all!
I think part of the reason Baine’s suggestion comes off badly to some people is that he jumps in with it before Talanji has said anything about how she wants to respond to the attack–and right after he just told her that he’ll help her in any way possible. He and Nathanos are bickering about what Zandalar should do with the new queen of Zandalar (and leader of a nation that has just joined forces with the Horde) standing right in front of them.
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I did Battle of Dazar’alor as alliance for the first time. All I have to say is DAMN Y’ALL SHOWED UP AND WRECKED THE CRAP OUT OF THAT CITY! The first lfr wing, look behind you as you zone in and it’s total D-Day Invasion vs Dinosaurs. Hilarious but sad for the trolls.
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And then 5 minutes later everything is fine for Rastakhan’s funeral, and the Zandalari officially ally with the Horde.
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The only problem with this is that Dazar’alor is never “fine”. It’s less so now, but before flying the city was godawful to navigate, and was basically punishment enough without also being destroyed. Had the docks area been destroyed, we might have actually had all that useful stuff relocated to the Great Seal where everything else is!
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Nah Dazar’alor is actually pretty cool. I like the positioning of everything; it makes you actually move around. It’s a bit inconvenient but so what? I also imagine that whole area has like gnarly waves. It’s beautiful.
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You sound like a Blizzard apologist.
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I have no idea what this means.
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You sound like you will defend Blizzard’s egregiously bad decisions and never take fault with them.
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I thought Dazar’alor was cool when I was first exploring it. Once it wore out its welcome, though, it REALLY wore it out. It’s basically 1/3rd the size of a questing zone and its amenities stretch up and down its length, and having to take a flight point each time to go up or down the pyramid just got a little more irritating each time.
I remember when doing that one quest scenario where you have to retake the city from Zul and thinking “this feels more like a better design for a raid than a player hub”, and then everything made sense when 8.1 was announced.
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It’s pretty much acknowledged by everyone, even actual Blizzard apologists like T&E, that Dazar’alor is poorly designed.
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Good for them. I have enjoyed hanging out down in the Grand Bazaar more than I have in that muddy crap area of Boralus. Not sure how that equates to me being an “apologist” that “never takes fault with [blizzard]”
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All these non-Blizzard apologists playing a Blizzard game and talking day in and day out about a Blizzard game. Stay tuned for the latest news from Blizzcon 2019!
But I’m in agreement with Spuddy. Boralus is a bore.
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As a functional player hub, Dazal’alor is a bit of a let down. As a metropolitan area, its also just a little bit strange how fixated on a single building the city is. However, on an aesthetic level I do genuinely like Dazal’alor and the surrounding landscape.
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Baine only becomes ‘Pro-Alliance’ when the machinations he helps along turns out to be right on track to roll over the Horde as well. Both times the Horde’s gone ‘morally grey’ he’s been behind it with little to no care about what happens to the Alliance until he realizes the Horde’s on the chopping block as well. He slept on the orcs attacking the nelves, slept on almost the entirety of Garrosh’s war until Vol’jon was nearly ganked, then he realized Garrosh was about to turn on the rest of the Horde and immediately switched to rebel.
Same with this latest debacle. His breaking point was realizing Sylvanas was probably going to turn on him and his people, not anything else up until that point. Everything I’ve seen of Baine points to him being pro-Horde, just in line with Thrall’s Horde. You know, the Horde that rode forth to fight alongside Bolvar at the Wrathgate, worked with the Alliance side by side in Silithus, and so on. He’s pro-that Horde, and pro-Horde in general, to the point that if Sylvanas hadn’t shown her hand with Derek and gone off all evil villain, I’m pretty sure the Horde could have burnt Stormwind to the ground and all Baine would do is make sad eyes as he warstomps human troops to paste.
Also that pic is probably fake, or from a phased moment at worst. It’s not like faction leaders haven’t visited each other’s capitals before.
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Did you … just not look into Baine’s reasoning for turning on Sylvie during the Derek issue? Or are you just making things up? The guy turns on her because she is eroding the ideological foundation of the Horde in his mind; and Derek is just the straw that breaks the camel’s back. He says as much if you talk to him in the great seal shortly after Derek’s resurrection, then reinforces this again when you go and listen to Derek’s "stay-awhile-and-listen".
In the Derek release cinematic he openly admits his reasoning for returning Derek is because he perceives a sickness in the Horde; and that this war no longer has sufficient enough value for him to ignore the Tauren’s patron deity dying. In the following gathering quest, he also calls out Sylvie for turning her back even on Forsaken Free Will. On top of all this, the guy not only deliberately spares Horde troops when freeing Derek, but also returns to face the consequences of his actions. Both would guarantee that he would put both himself and the Tauren in Sylvie’s crosshairs.
If his only concern was sparing the Tauren, he would have not risked them suffering the consequences of what amounted to merely the action of a conscientious objector.
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Basically this lmao. Said it better than me. Baine defended Lordaeron from the Alliance with blood, after the most egregious act had already been committed by the Horde in the war. These are not the actions of a traitor or “Alliance at heart” dude.
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What you’re saying is pretty much in line with what I said, though. The Burning wasn’t his breaking point, Saurfang being left to die wasn’t either. Both of those things are much more serious in terms of eroding the Horde’s ideology. But Derek’s raising and Sylvanas (idiotically) ranting about her plan in public makes him realize that she’s breaking her own rules, ergo she’s now a threat to the Horde as well.
If the blatant use of Azerite (the blood of his patron deity), the Burning, Saurfang being left to die, and the Blighting of her own troops weren’t enough to get him to turn on her, then one can only assume that he’s ride or die Horde loyal until that Horde is about to turn on him.
Of course, this is more a symptom of the writers trying to jam narratives down our throats with no sense of nuance or subtlety, so much like Anduin and Saurfang I can only lay it at the feet of characterization so much.
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