How would a dialogue between Baine and Tyrande look like 
Tyrande would fall in love. She likes her men furry and covered with feathers after all.
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Seconded. If I avoided anything in this terrible expansion, it was Warchief Baine “I will punish the Horde for defending itself from Alliance invaders” Bloodhoof.
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As a side note, seems we’ve avoided that fate into perpetuity with the onset of this council system. I … don’t mind Baine as much as many seem to, but god did I not want him in charge of the faction.
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This. “Morally grey” jokes aside, Alliance Vs. Horde used to work in early WoW because in WC3 the Alliance did bad things too. There were bad people in the Alliance doing bad things to Horde people. So there was just as much reason for the Horde to hate the Alliance as there was for the Alliance to hate the Horde.
But for a long time now, the Alliance has pretty much been completely good. They don’t do anything wrong anymore. They’re good guys all the time. So it makes it impossible for someone in the Horde to continue to hate them without being an unreasoning monster.
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Would have been the shortest reign of Warchiefs, and that’s saying something.
Thrall: Baine has held up honor though this all, only he can lead.
Baine humbly bows to Thrall.
Then turn to Anduin, hearts in his eyes.
Warchief Baine: We surrender.
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I felt neutral-to-positive about Baine until the insane amount of shilling they gave him in this expansion. That had the opposite effect on me.
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Adding on to this, a big part of this is that, as Horde, you rarely have quests involving the Alliance to begin with. If you do have them, the Horde is probably doing a same or similar thing in the region, so both sides are effectively equal (Horde Grunt fighting Alliance Footman; Explorer’s League Dwarf fighting Reliquary Belf; etc). This even extended into 8.0 and the war campaign. You really have to go out of your way to run into any quests asking you to kill the Alliance, and the initial parts of the war campaign have you avoiding conflict with them for the most part. You do kill some Kul’Tirans along the way, but don’t worry because these ones did some bad stuff or something so they’re kinda evil anyway.
The main thing that’s stopped me from ever really liking Baine before BfA is that 100% of his story is told in books. The in-game version never actually went out and did anything. I don’t really read the books. So, when BfA comes along and tries to sell him off as super honorable and the heart and soul of the Horde, all I can do is wonder why can’t we let him go and replace him with someone like Dezco?
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I’m fine with him being around, though damned if I would like that darker side he apparently has to manifest once in a blue moon. I just wish characters like Jevan Grimtotem could get some damned development to serve as a counterbalance for Baine. Jevan is an honorable dude, but he is more ruthless and is a good potential character.
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This confused me. Didnt you do that from the get go of the thread? Arent you the OP?
I dont even know any more.
Because its dumb. Why would he call for negotiations with the Alliance when:
A) Alliance being on the cusp of victory gives them an entire realm of leverage over them. Why the hell would Alliance agree to surrender terms, if they are about to cripple the Horde and win the war?
B) Your new allies just had their home invaded and their beloved king killed; so they would probably have new resolve in hunting the murderers down.
C) This was the first real big loss the Horde after War of Thorns (since we assume that losing Lordaeron was a backup plan in case things went badly for Horde, which they did). So this comes off as Baine being very ineffective and not leadership material.
Wrong motion, wrong time.
Heres the problem:
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He’s not even a diplomat. He’s a racial leader for the Horde (specifically one of the most important NPCs currently in the Horde). I dont think anyone would have cared if it was Liadrin, Valtros, Halduron, or any B-C tier NPC character.
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Its not the issue that he is there, its that he is there supposedly PERMANENTLY and FRIENDLY to Alliance. Why? That makes no sense especially to a very angry Alliance playerbase.
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Anduin can ride a bull and a black dragon at the same time.
Anduin’s consorts are none of their business.
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Wrathion is hidden, why cant his bullriding?
Has anyone tried approaching Anduin, Valeera, or Alliance Baine as Horde to see what happens? Like, can Horde actually attack him? Does he actually fight back and try to defend the other NPC’s, or does he remain true to character and stand around doing nothing?
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Because Anduin is High King and he’d forgive the Horde even if they had killed every other member of the Alliance
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But Sylvanas didnt believe that, and shes the Warchief.
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That, and as it is presented neither side is in any position by this point to assert authority over the other in any meaningful way; without tremendous cost. As much as negotiations are a very Anduin thing to do, its also the most practical thing to do at this point as well. Little is gained for the Alliance through continuing this war if they no longer find themselves in a position to decisively win it without making sacrifices they may not be able to afford to make.
Judging from the Battle for Dazar’alor even the sacrifices we can afford to make go to waste.
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Hey, preaching to the choir. I mean, you do realize that the entire Horde war campaign was wiped away by the Alliance … repeatedly. Hell, nothing bad even came from Derek yet. On top of it all it was revealed that this entire conflict on the Horde side was in service to Sylvanas’ personal goals, and we were just tools in her game. Everything was a waste beyond setting up the next expansion.
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Well they pretty much say right beforehand that the Horde is losing the war. That itself puts the horde in a bad negotiating position and while Baine has faith in Anduin, any politician worth their salt would question wether the rest of the Alliance would go along with not pressing the negotiating advantage they had. At the very least they would be demanding Sylvanas’s head on a platter and I don’t see that being a request the Horde would be willing to accept at that point. It certainly would be very hard to sell to the Forsaken.
Simply put, talk of negotiation came up as extremely naive from Baine, particularly right at the moment where the Zandalari are still going to be seriously pissed off from being attacked on such a scale and having their king killed. Its that ‘you don’t try negotiating with a tiger when your head is in it’s mouth’.
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