This is purely, purely anectdotal, but I would wager that close to anywhere from 50-100 Alliance on even the Mankrik cluster per buff drop is not uncommon, and I would say that is a conservative estimate… Most of the back hills are absolutely full of people grabbing the buff.
If you click the search magnifying glass (top right) you can configure it by date, and under “Fight Date” can set a “no earlier than” date, e.g. Jan 1 2024. Then hit search at the bottom. I am not sure how far back it goes by default but I will reach out to the their team and ask.
I limited to just 2024 and there are still thousands of Alliance using WCB (filtered that out this time). I agree of course that WCB will skew to the top parses because it is a huge buff (15% haste).
If you click the top left menu “damage” you can change it to “healing” and you can see the hundreds if not thousands of healers who are also using WCB. There are less than the DPS of course, as the buff is not as good for them.
Honestly, I wish I could still sort this by date… it still orders by ranking. If I was feeling ambitious I could just scrap this data and page until no results were found, then pull out all the unique raids and count up the amount that had, say greater than 50% WCB vs. those without.
But I’m not feeling that ambitious 
The intent here is to just gain an appreciation for what quantity of logging DPS players currently get WCB vs. those who don’t.
If you click the date heading it sorts by date.
Only for that page 
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Well my point was mainly to show that there are lots of people who have and who do use it. It ain’t perfect but I think that is illustrated there anyway.
I think there’s definitely more than I had first thought, to be sure. That changes a little bit of my perspective certainly. One of the questions that was raised here is whether or not WCB is on a similar level of scope compared to before the boon was introduced and people weren’t logging in.
I actually think it’s a big enough problem that Alliance are jumping through hoops to get this buff that I would feel reasonably confident in saying Blizzard could do something here and it would be appropriate. It’s tough to say though… and like I said, when I went through the log uploads, it actually made it look like there were less people using WCB than these rankings do. Feel free to check by the way, I just went to Raids -> Naxxramas -> All Reports. Then I inspected random Alliance looking logs on the first page. Not offerred as proof, purely anecdotal, but you might have a look there too.
Anyway, when exploring what that something is though, that’s another story. I am still very much trying to respect the wishes of #nochanges because I think that perspective is valid (not to the extremes, just the overall concept), but I do like that WCB is (or at least was intended to be) a Horde exclusive buff. This is why I find removing it appealing… but at this point it’s also worth asking, would taking it away from Alliance entirely be too much? Would guilds suddenly stop being able to clear?
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I honestly appreciate your willingness to look at data and such. It is far more than what most are doing.
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Honestly though, I really am trying to promote an approach here that’s less focused on “what’s best for me” and is “what’s best for the mostly static game we all want to live in for the next 10 years” haha.
A good part of that is building up a realistic appreciation of the current state of affairs. Having some data to support that is super helpful!
Many will have to come to terms with the fact that there will come a time when these world buffs are gonna be few and far between. ERA will certainly see different fluxes after things like SoD end, and whatever future iterations are going to be.
There will come a time when rend drops aren’t going to be able to be dropped anymore… The game was only designed to run for a certain time, I think if we want to keep it going for the longest it possibly can, MoS is a no-brainer. I want ERA around in even 5 years.
No that’s not the case at all but raiders wouldn’t tolerate it being removed entirely from Alliance. That would be a bigger sh*tstorm than taking MOS away lol
Well the problem is. Era is not true to vanilla. Has not been since 2019. The only way to get a close experience is a private server. Truthfully, these players are the loudest but in minority and should not have been able to sway the game as they did. For the average player, the majority, MoS was a QoL change for the better. Same with boons. This change should have been kept. I will die on the hill promoting my dissatisfaction of it being removed from era.
#BRINGBACKMOS
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Blizzard hardly ever listens to pushback on changes, that’s why SoD and Cata Classic exist as they are. Blizzard listens to the people who play for WCLs and parsing CONSTANTLY, so much that I’d consider it to be their target audience, and they are way more interested in the people who play for that singular aspect of the game and not for the little fun and special elements of it.
So blame who you want and ask for whatever you want but realize that those who play to speed run and parse get their way already 99% of the time, and not expecting 100% would be nice but a spoiled person will rarely see things like that.
(sorry Tubbly I want to be positive, but posts like the one directly above from people that always get their way who are now crying because they didn’t one time are annoying)
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If you can say this about rend then you can say this about Ony and Hakkar, so that does imply that MoS isn’t really the answer. In fact, with this line of reasoning, I would say that MoS is only a temporary boon and for Alliance only. It doesn’t solve the greater problem that you’re implying exists.
You will always be able to get new world buffs, you just have to level an alt to get them, but I completely agree that the pace of consumption compared to the pace of generation is in no way balanced. To be honest, I’m surprised it’s made it this far. Indeed, on my server (which is only one guild on my whole faction), we’re running out. We don’t do Rend and we’re buffing usually once or twice a week.
World buffs weren’t really intended to be used this way, Players have just done it like this 
I’m not so sure. I had a pretty good conversation with a Warrior on my alt server last night. We had finished an LBRS run where they got their last gem and had to go to the bank, so I was chilling in the dungeon to hold it open. At some point they lamented about MoS so I asked them about their experiences and how they would feel about WCB being removed entirely from Alliance.
Some notes from this individual’s responses…
- Their raiders are individually responsible for having their rend buffs, so they have to organize it on their own. They don’t do this as a group.
- They usually get WCB roughly 3 times per week.
- MoS would have saved them roughly 2-4 hours per week.
- They were positive about the idea of not being able to get WCB at all, but expected that a WCL reset would happen if it ever did so the playing field remained level.
I want to be clear here that this does not represent the views of all raiders. It’s just one data point. They happened to bring it up so I asked a few questions and am relaying it here. I’m not interested in chasing confirmation bias, just the discussion haha.
I do hope Blizzard is watching stuff like this. While this thread hasn’t really gone the way I wanted, there’s still been some positive discussion that’s come out of it and I feel like this might have been good to have with the community before they surprise dropped what a lot of folks consider a pretty substantial change. They’re never going to make everybody happy but tapping into the player vibe here is important. This whole thing has uncovered a vein of player behaviour that a lot of folks didn’t know was present and that’s worth talking about.
To be honest with you, I agree 100%. Although my other post was attacked by many closeminded individuals, I do believe changes will have to be made to the way world buffs work. Sorry if I made it seem like I was saying just MoS.
We are not at that point for the other world buffs however, because of the nature of horde having smaller numbers, I do envision the first world buff to suffer from this will be Rend due to it being horde drop only, and horde generally having less players than Alliance on era realms.
Oh, so only now your being honest?
wind will change soon
new vector coming
I’m not on the same footing with the so called “opposition”.
WBs were originally designed to be cool little bonuses for completing content. Not parsing and speed runs. Rend in particular has a finite element to it since its a one and done quest for horde players. Its extremely plausible to suggest you would eventually hit a wall one day with your very niche community where the population is slanted towards the alliance.
But hey, alliance mains are leveling horde toons exclusively for ally rend buffs. I mean, that sounds absolutely crazy to me but if they’re willing to put in the work, go for it lol. Working as intended at the end of the day with the exception of the likely boosting.
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Hey at least you are having a discussion now.
I don’t know what blizzards intentions were with WBs, I don’t think anyone knows for sure besides those who were on the team. But saying they were or weren’t intended to be used that way is a bit of a stretch.
About your WB and hitting the wall comment, what do you recommend ERA does when that happens? Make the quests repeatable? I think this could be a good change even now to be honest with you.
It would be a great middle ground to not getting MoS as alliance, in my honest opinion.
As an aside, I already have a 2nd account with an MC cap haha, do I enjoy doing that though? Another story lol
Bingo, agreed
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