If you played 1.5 you would know, if you didn’t all you can do is speculate and go by what other people have said, doest even have to be from this forum. 40 cannot just spank and tank an enemy base
The biggest hope that not being able to zerg 1.5 has is that a raid couldn’t defeat the NPCs plus enemy players at the same time.
That’s why summoning ram riders or Ivus(or the Horde equivalents) was such a big deal. They were one of the few windows of opportunity to really get a good push going because now we had powerful NPCs attacking with us.
Which, even in modern AV right now, you rarely if ever get ALL 40 players rushing to take out the other side’s bases. People try to defend, which will naturally cause problems for the zerg of AV 1.5 given the fact that the NPCs aren’t pushovers to begin with. You shouldn’t need a full raid of 40 to defend with the help of the NPCs.
Then why cater to them?
Yet more echoes of the Wall of No.
Reinforcements did not enable the ability to zerg, no matter how many times you and zyrius repeat it.
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Ok, find a 1.6 zerg. Find a 1.7 zerg. Find any zerg before the nerfs began in 1.8.
You say it’s irrelevant and then follow it up with a sentence saying it’s clearly not irrelevant. That’s like saying it’s irrelevant how much stronger a Mythic boss is compared to its lfr version.
You don’t have to take any tower/bunker in 1.12 AV. You can just leash the generals/warmasters and solo down the Boss. That’s…the point. It’s the buffed npc guards, and many more of them (remember 1.11 removed MOST of the guards) and buffed Bosses themselves that can stop that.
Let’s have 2 versions of Naxx. I don’t want to have to commit to all of that time, gear, consumables and skill. Just want to do it, get the purples and never do it again. Want more of a challenge, just do the early version.
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If there were in fact two versions of naxx that were significantly different sure .
Let’s face it. The people who would enjoy 1.5 AV and consistently play it are a dedicated FEW. 1.12 AV is overall better for endgame and will see a lot more people playing it.
I have so much confidence in Classic being an amazing MMO on its own. As such, it has be reasonable in having ways for players to progress their character and enjoy the game. 1.5 AV is more of an RP event than a Battleground and that’s just not what people will want to do.
Classic will have the spirit of Vanilla and by improving on the unreasonable aspects of Vanilla, while maintaining that same spirit, Classic has a chance to be a truly amazing game.
Classic is being made for the dedicated FEW.
Anyway, let me ask people this. Let’s suppose the zerg fails and we enter a battle of attrition. What does an older verison offer that Current AV doesn’t? 1.7 (my choice) has landmines, goblin shredders, two extra parts of the map, buffed Kornak, much more powerful and numerous NPCs. 1.12 has…?
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Incorrect. Private servers are for the dedicated few. Classic is to bring an amazing game back for everyone to enjoy. What made Vanilla amazing is the long, drawn-out pace of the game. This will continue in Classic. Still, better graphics and reasonable changes will simply make the game more playable, and in my opinion, better than Vanilla ever was.
I remember that more often than not, one team would break the unspoken rush pact and defend their general turning the entire game into an all out war pushing through the map.
You should read some interviews. It’s being made for a niche group of dedicated Vanilla enthusiasts, and Blizzard is fine if ‘tens of people’ end up playing it long-term.
You didn’t give a single example of what 1.12 offers that Current AV doesn’t.
Let’s face it, that is raiding in a nutshell. Only a small % of players actually raid. Should raids have been nerfed and gutted to appeal to more people during vanilla?
Then they could choose not to, and do without the rewards.
I simply cannot understand this attempted justification of "less people will do it, must cater to them so they can get the rewards more easily.
It flies in the face of vanilla risk/commitment <-> Reward.
Contradict yourself much?
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1.12 doesn’t have reinforcements.
Link?
Between 1.5 and 1.12 things were removed to make it a more reasonable BG so your question doesn’t make a lot of sense.
1.12 AV offers a reasonable, PvP-focused Battleground as opposed to 1.5 AV being an RP event.
And clearly not all of those "enthusiasts support the idea that 1.12 is inherently bad because it can be “zerged”, outside of 1 video of a premade doing it, I’ve never heard of any time ever ignoring all the towers/bunkers and going straight for the general, even after reinforcements.
No, but it caused it on servers/battlegroups that didn’t zerg.
It’s almost like before 2.3 there was a choice players could make.
1.12 doesn’t have reinforcements, so prolonged multi hour pvp slugfests of nothing but pvp. No npcs, just 2 teams slamming head on into each other at a choke point.
Did you have reinforcements?
I ask for a third time: what does the 1.12 AV map offer that hasn’t been offered in the past 12 years? I have yet to see a single example of anything. And don’t say reinforcements, because all that is is a concrete finish line. It’s not features, it’s not content, it’s not gameplay.
Reinforcements are a huge change that directly impact gameplay and they’re not in 1.12. So that is what 1.12 offers that retail AV doesn’t.
The time between 1.11 and 2.3 also made zerging even easier by not requiring players to do anything about towers along the way.
You could leash the warmasters, and they didn’t yet provide the increased health/damage aura.
You could basically just rush straight to the enemy General.
When it comes to “choice”, it’s proven that players will take the path of least resistance.
It’s going to be hard trying to get a good war going when it’s me and maybe 1-2 others against 40 players all rushing to my General.
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Once again: reinforcements did not enable the ability to bypass the content on the way to the generals.
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What reinforcements did do though is punish you for not zerging.
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