The problem is that people have done the math ages ago and rake scales REALLY badly until WotLK. You’re better off spamming mangle instead of using rake cause the damage is just that bad, even with the mangle debuff. There’s just no justifiable reason to use rake.
So I hate to break it to ya but if you were using rake in back in original TBC, you shoulda been using mangle the whole time.
I am listening to your concerns. In my old age, I just fail to see them as concerns. This is a playstyle that players can adapt to not having. Nothing more, nothing less. And my name comes from the name of the legal codes of Emperor Justinian I; or the Codex Justinianus in Latin. I wasn’t trolling, but apparently you are. Whatever university you attended, ask for a refund.
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#FreeTheKitties
#FixTheTick BUMP
I’m sorry but there are many flaws in your dissertation here.
Chiefly, you referred to the energy tick reset as a “bug” when we have an explicitly direct statement from Blizzard saying that it is not.
You probably believe that they might only be saying that simply because it matches their reference client, but that is a pretty surface level assumption. There has to be a reason beyond it simply matching the reference client behavior that they don’t think it’s a bug. That means, yes, this change was likely intentional when it happened. Probably in the form of programming notes or evident in the architecture of the coding, it’s probably noticeable that the change was purposeful.
There is actually zero, nada, no proof that the energy tick reset change was collateral damage to the Innervate/Evocation buff. It just so happens that it occurred during the same patch, so everyone simply assumes that it must be correlated, but we have no proof of that. All we have is a screenshot of a community blue saying “Oh, that’s weird, I’ll send it up the pipeline to see what they say”, in response to a triggered feral speaking on the issue.
The thing is, we had more time with the change than without in TBC. They are modeling the patch where we had it. Just like we had to live with all of Classic with 1.12 balancing as the model. Saying that we experienced TBC “during progression” is an empty argument because progression doesn’t work like it does in modern retail WoW. People are strewn about all tiers of progression. In Sunwell, many guilds were still plugging away at SSC and TK. In fact, an extreme minority of guilds even got to see Sunwell, similar to Naxx. I bet you can count the number of competitive Feral DPS players in Sunwell on one hand, it doesn’t even feel extreme to presume there probably were none. This means that when abouts the change occurred is kind of irrelevant if you’re using “when the content was patch-current” as the basis.
Furthermore, if you think about it, the change actually makes sense, in a vacuum when you consider there were likely a very small number of serious competitive DPS feral players. Making the energy tick start over on shift makes it more “predictable”, which makes timing less of an element in maximizing energy gain from furor/wolfshead. The problem is that they may not have foreseen how this would ultimately hurt the eventual meta playstyle of very frequent powershifting.
So, in summary, to want this changed to the vanilla energy mechanics is basically akin to wanting private server-esque custom class (energy) mechanics because they “feel better”. Do you realize that plenty of classes would probably have their own laundry list of things they’d like changed if Pandora’s box is opened on that front? Warriors all the sudden want rage normalized to different expansion values, etc.
I don’t believe the addition of seal of blood to alliance Paladins is a good argument, either. This is a balance issue that…in my opinion is not comparable. Energy is not different between factions. You’re asking for a change that would affect every single druid no matter what faction.
The seal twisting changes, I can’t really defend. That one does fall in to a level of “custom server” style changes that is tough to justify, I’ll admit, but for now, I believe the energy change was intentional originally, and they have very definitive reasons to believe it was not a bug, or collateral damage to any change they made to anything else. A targeted, purposeful change that eventually, as the feral meta developed over years and years, became an incredible nerf at this very moment in time while we’re reliving the transition to TBC in a classic server progression line.
Additionally, I’ve seen some anecdotes from feral pals who say that when coupled with buffs other abilities received and some of the new talents, it’s actually not that much of a nerf/not really a nerf at all. Time will have to tell on this one. You see most of the calculations we’ve done have been based squarely on the fact that we essentially lose our ability to double shred immediately which “slows down” the rotation as we know it to be in vanilla, but things are different in a lot of ways that make this methodology of determining it’s effect on our TBC DPS flawed.
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There has been no communication from Blizzard at all regarding if this is actually a bug or not.
Nothing.
Even if it was not a bug (which I don’t agree with), Blizzard has not made a comment or post to clarify that they have notes or some reason to believe this. There was no mention of this change being made in the patch notes when it happened which is why it is believed to be, and most likely is, a bug.
As you pointed out, there was no proof that the energy tick reset was collateral, but there was no proof or note that it wasn’t either.
Making this change in a vacuum wouldn’t make much sense either. Old Blizzard didn’t mind odd quirks and fun parts of gear, look at mage tier 2. The energy still wouldn’t be predictable anyways as you would most likely be wearing two pieces of your tier 4 for the energy chance as well. Which was a chance, not guaranteed.
Seal twisting was kept, thanks to Blizzard’s actions, because it was a fun quirk that paladins enjoyed. Under that same ruling alone, powershifting should be kept.
For the other ferals saying that this isn’t a nerf, most of the feral damage relies on yellow hits. This nerf forces you to wait longer for those yellow hits. We don’t rely on white hits for most of our damage, this does impact us. Even if we find it to be a small amount in the future, its an impact.
The biggest issue, as I stated above, is that Blizzard refuses, for whatever reason, to communicate with us on this issue.
They have communicated on other issues, they have even given random comments about their excitement for TBC.
Why can we druids not receive a single comment from Blizzard on this issue? Not one? The only thing to assume is they don’t care about us. They don’t play feral druids and don’t care about the class. That is what they are leaving us to believe.
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It is a hard nerf.
Feral does more dps than it did in classic, yes. I do about ~15% more damage with my dps set right now than I did in classic during an optimal powershifting rotation.
I do ~15% more damage after receiving:
A flat 30% damage increase on the primary spell used in my rotation, as well as my finisher, so all the spells in my rotation
Better attack power scaling off both agility and strength
6% crit from talents
10% increased crit damage
And on top of all that I receive the sweet sensation of frustration as my whole rotation now feels as clunky as when I would accidentally try to do it with my tank set on a month ago.
Feral dps doesn’t feel worth playing in any even mildly competitive raiding environment due to this #notabug.
This is keeping the notion in mind that druid is a hybrid class. Just because they are hybrid doesn’t mean they can’t run a deep spec and specialize for dps. I am just as capable of turning into a bear and picking up a loose add, decursing, off healing, dropping wrath’s on targets vulnerable to nature, sleeping beasts, rooting things as any other spec of druid.
I just want to have fun doing my fun cat rotation without it feeling bad and performing worse.
I’ve spent a fair a mount of time testing this as well now too, I haven’t been able to come up with a rotation that does damage equivalent to, or more damage than, double shred power shifting.
Like looking at the talent tree alone it is so freaking obvious that Blizzard wanted to do the feral players well and make them legitimately strong in TBC. One energy tick change implementation and that is now going entirely down the drain for the duration of the whole expansion.
Just an anecdote from my experiences with the change.
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Let me clarify that.
It was an unintended result of a larger change, to me that is in fact a bug in the original client.
Now, while blizzard may have put it on a “Not a bug list” because it is currently intended it very much was not originally meant to shaft feral, it was just close to WOTLK and they had a talent revamp in the works so feral got no love till then.
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It’s literally listed in their “not a bug” list for feral druids.
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/burning-crusade-classic-not-a-bug-list-may-18-2021/279764
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It was not “close to WOTLK”. This is rampant misinformation.
We actually spent more time in TBC with the “nerfed” energy than before it was changed.
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Had my first PVE raiding experience with the new changes. While my performance was better than before the buffs, the extent of the nerf to the function and feel of the spec is large. It feels worse and is less fun. This should be the main concern.
I would gladly take a nerf to the damage numbers or percentages to have the functionality of the spec and rotation fixed.
I am used to being underpowered as a spec from playing cat druid through all of classic and not being able to invest the time to attain the very niche itemization required to compete but still lose to the other melee specs. I don’t need my spec to be meta or relevant, but I do need my spec to feel good and be fun to play.
In any outcome I won’t be dropping cat druid because that is what I want to play. Please, revert the energy change even if I have to give up % on mangle debuff or something.
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The change didn’t get implemented until after every single raid had been released except for sunwell. This is a post black temple change.
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so every single phase up until the final one had classic power shifting. I would call that a pretty late change.
Yes, and they spent 2 years during original classic and into TBC telling us the cat model wasn’t broken and the hitbox was totally fine.
I have zero faith in blizzards abilities of discernment and that was with the original devs.
Placing something on a “Not a Bug List” does not, in fact, make it not a bug.
To put it another way, the Classic and TBC devs list of feral druid bugs we can’t be f-ed fixing was always long and annoying…so their protestations that this is “NOT A BUG” is not only hollow but ironic, given it was surely originally a bug.
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This sounds like a reasonable argument. Cheers!
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But using “it wasn’t like this during progression” isn’t really as valid an argument as you’re making it seem. Vanilla/TBC were different from modern retail WoW in that “progression” meant something different to every player/guild. Some guilds were in SSC/TK progressing when Sunwell was out. Some guilds did nothing but Karazhan.
That’s a lot different from their current model where literally only the current patch tier raid matters or is worth doing.
Also I continue to disagree with the assumption that this change was a “side-effect” of the evocation/innervate change. I think it was targeted, and purposeful.
Energy generation is not changed when you powershift, which is why it doesn’t receive partial returns the original change stated. However, it was bugged to do so during beta/ptr at a point, so there’s some interesting wire crossing going on for sure, but I still feel the changes are unrelated to each other.
All being said, it’s not like I’m against Blizzard changing it. I am a feral druid, and have played it all of classic in a somewhat competitive capacity against my guilds’ DPS. I also PvP seriously as one (like, not just flagging and defending stables), so trust me, it’s not like I don’t get the cries for change. I am affected by this nerf like any other.
From the patch notes with the stated intention IN PLAIN ENGLISH:
Power Regeneration: Any effect which triggers a change in your rate of power regeneration (Mana, Rage, Energy, Focus) will now cause an immediate reward of some power at the old rate of increase, and then begin new “ticks” of power at the new rate approximately 2 seconds later. This was done to improve functionality of abilities such as Evocation and Innervate so that they did not have wasted “ticks”.
Bolded the relevant section.
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Yeah, I read it…and I stand by what I said.
When it’s referring to a “change in your rate of power regeneration” in regards to energy, it’s talking about adrenaline rush. Reposting it and bolding something that doesn’t even mention energy doesn’t change anything.
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If it was targeted and purposeful, why are there no posts stating that?
No patch notes or blue posts saying it was done on purpose?
There is, however, one blue post showing that it seemed to be a bug.
This is why it is seen as a bug. not a bug list or not.
You mean to tell me you’ve never noticed that there are literal bucket-loads of undocumented changes in every single patch that WoW has ever received?
Google “wow undocumented patch notes patch x.xx” and you will find something, usually lengthy lists, for nearly every patch in existence.
Look, here’s one for patch 2.2 (the one the change was put in):
https ://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_2.2.0_(undocumented_changes)