People like hunter because it’s the only ranged physical dps and it has a pet. I don’t know why they removed what made it unique.
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Couldn’t agree more.
You believe whatever you want. You’re free to have an opinion.
It’s not just about being ranged. This argument has been spewed out so many times before and it’s still just as useless.
Aesthetics matters. Themes matter. Mechanical differences and interactions matter, beyond simply being about ranged combat.
Exactly.
Actually read what people are saying. Forget the entire post, at least read the reply made specifically towards yourself…
Kudos Roojun for posting it again:
For the sake of flavor and diversity.
At least they(devs) thought of it this way. The thing is, if they had just added MSV in as a 4th spec from the start, these arguments/discussions would not exist.
Yes sure, there would most likely be someone who was upset that the class as a whole was no longer focused on a single general fantasy(that being the reliance of ranged weapons).
But compare that to what they actually did. They didn’t just dilute the level of uniqueness that the class held up until the Legion pre-patch, where Hunters were the only class in the game that relied on said ranged weapons. They also decided that a third of the total range of sub-fantasies/specializations pertaining to that main class fantasy, should be completely removed in the process. Just to make room…
Again, this is where the big screw-up was done(IMO).
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Fine…we can agree to disagree
Bm and mm were never even close to rsv. Just playing class 10 minutes you could feel the difference right away. Course if someone was from outside looking in might all seem same but no. Rsv didnt play like any hunter spec or any spec in entire game. It was one of a kind.
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No they weren’t. They were originally designed as a hybrid ranged/melee which you would know if you played one before Wrath. If anything having a melee-oriented spec goes back to the roots of the hunter.
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Unfortunately disagreeing with certain people is considered harassment and will lead to a silence. They’re allowed to speak in a ill manner, but you can’t.
I’ve been saying this for the longest, but unfortunately the developers and mods don’t want to help out on the matter. They rather see who gets flagged first to enforce a penalty.
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Please do NOT make survival ranged. It is my favorite class/spec.
Just putting my vote in here to show my support 
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unfortunately blizzard doesn’t care.
imagine you play a fire mage for 10 years and blizz decides to remove that spec because you already have 2 other ranged mage specs. now you come to the forums and everyone tells you that fire mage was never great and it was basically just a frost mage with different colors.
everyone’s wasting time arguing which spec is better but the reality is people basically had their character deleted with legion and many of them aren’t even playing anymore.
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I’m not trying to say anything against it. I think they need to keep survival melee and make a 4th spec that’s ranged THAT PEOPLE WILL ACTUALLY LIKE. This whole “We got enough classes/specs now. We don’t need to expand.”. Um apparently YOU DO. I would rather see a class/spec more than I would another race.
Some had their character deleted earlier around Wotlk when the melee abilities hit like a wet noodle. Those players who perfected the spec in both fields lost interest after all the work and enchants they put on that character. Legion may resemble some similarities, but it doesn’t give the vanilla and bc vibe.
That simply isn’t true. The original game manual clearly emphasizes that hunters are a ranged class.
All classes that have melee specs now are mentioned in the manual. Except for hunter.
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The class back then was based in design for you to focus on ranged combat. They added in a min. attack range to our ranged weapons, this why we also had melee weapons. So we could attack enemies that were up close.
The design prior to Legion never intended for us to ‘‘by free will’’ go into melee range and start whacking the enemy in the face. We had ranged weapons so we could stay away from them while causing damage.
If they came to close, we had melee weapons to be able to do something against the enemy even though we could not use ranged weapons within that area.
Having said that, if you chose to seek out melee combat as a hunter back then, this was your choice. This is what you call ‘‘method of play(ing)’’. But that has nothing to do with what’s called ‘‘intent of design’’.
The design of the class back then and our abilities etc, intended for us to try to stay away from enemies as much as possible.
If an enemy came to close, we had ways to incapacitate or harm them, the purpose of, was for us to get away from the enemy, to again use the ranged attacks/weapon.
If you did not go by that intended design but chose to stay up close, that was your choice. Nothing wrong with that. But this is not a valid argument for you to claim that SV(in Vanilla/BC) intended for you to be a melee fighter or a hybrid.
Yeah…it’s sad to say the least.
Exactly. Yes please.
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And you have both been proven wrong so many times it’s beyond meme worthy at this point how ignorant yall are.
Hunters were primarily a ranged attacker who had the tools to not be completely useless if you did get into melee confrontations. However, you were basically still mostly useless which is why Survival had things like Entrapment, Improved Wing Clip, etc… Things to help you get back to ranged.
As has been said before, no hunter during Classic, BC or WotLK ran around melee’ing mobs to death. No hunter in their right mind ever went “gee golly, PvP!, let me run up to this warrior/rogue/enhance shaman and just spam Raptor Strike!”. Or even “Raiding Molten Core? What do you mean I can’t spam Raptor Strike on Ragnaros”.
But as usual, some of you are so blind and dense to what WE are saying. Hunters had never, EVER focused on the melee aspect. Yalls entire argument basically boils down to “Well I could use Raptor Strike so it must be a melee spec!”. Yea, well, so could BM and MM but I don’t see yall clamoring on about how those were melee specs.
Please learn to read. We literally have said, multiple times, that we don’t want MSV removed. Because it does have a community. And despite most of that community seemingly being ignorant trolls who can’t read or are too dense to acknowledge facts that have been proven via logs linked in this very thread…cough. We want RSV back as a fourth spec. The spec SOME OF US PLAYED FOR LITERALLY A DECADE. But you people just see “Please return survival back to ranged” in the title without reading the “or give hunters a 4th spec” and go nuts.
The majority of yall don’t even add a single thing to this discussion, yall literally say “nah, i like MSV, screw you, don’t touch my spec”. With about half of the MSV supporters openly admittedly they don’t even play a hunter or had never touched the class prior to Survival being made melee. Which makes it very hard to take your words seriously, or even at face value considering none of yall ever post on hunters. Hmmmmm.
Sigh. You are reaching just to reach now. Blizzard tweaking damage modifiers for abilities to reflect what the core thematic of the Hunter class was and always has been is in no way, shape or form comparable to Ranged Survival being completely deleted overnight to make way for Discount Warrior with a pet(AKA, Melee BM). But keep reaching friend.
Regardless, as we have said multiple times. We aren’t asking for Blizzard to revert MSV back to RSV. We don’t want MSV removed. Yet some of you still seem so oblivious to that. RSV coming back as a 4th spec doesn’t impact MSV at all. Nothing changes for MSV fans. If RSV was brought back as a 4th spec. Literally everything would change for all of us who had our spec deleted during the Legion prelaunch. So again, why are some of yall so against us getting our spec back as a fourth? Seriously, why?
Mhm. What’s sad too, is how blind people like Brutalistica are. Refusing to acknowledge facts. Refusing to acknowledge that we aren’t asking for MSV to be removed. Refusing to acknowledge that we just want RSV back, as a fourth spec. Refusing to acknowledge what you said, which has also been said numerous times in one form or another. They’d rather kick and scream “MELEE WAS DE WAY” all night long.
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Surely a 4th hunter spec would give people who enjoyed ranged survival what they had, while also allowing people who enjoy melee hunter, what they have now?
It seems to be the logically best situation. Why are people even arguing? What possible reason is there to argue for only three specs, but only the one you want? Just have four so another person can also be happy.
Doesn’t that make for a better game? More happy players?
Blizzard should never have changed it in the first place as I said earlier. But they did. And people left.
So add, rather than taking away. Give people choice in how to play, rather than taking away cherished things.
4 specs seems logical.
Gosh, designing your own spec would be even better. “Play how you want to play” was Morrowind’s mantra. Pity Blizzard didn’t borrow that idea along with the other things they grabbed.
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Who say’s its time waster fluff? Is this your opinion (Again) or a fact (Source on this)? Again, there’s a large population in Classic that disagree, and believe it’s just as important to the identity of the Hunter as the actual ranged weapon itself.
That’s the point Bepples, the original identity doesn’t matter. It’s irrelevant, the class has LONG moved past that.
I didn’t see anyone saying that prior to your Gish Galloping, I saw them saying Melee existed.
The class changed, retail changes. We know the reasoning behind the change was to bring new players. This happens all the time in retail. That’s merit enough.
It being the first sentence thus making it the most important is the worst string of logic, I’ve ever seen.
What was debunked? You said they prefer melee and didn’t play the hunter before melee survival, therefore they’re uneducated on the subject and their opinion is invalid, while they’re ignorant. You even admitted you were biased yourself. You’re horrible logic applies to you as well.
I never saw people say melee only existed. I saw them say they used melee all the time. Melee for sure existed, its not like the change to melee spec came out of nowhere. Survival always had melee talents.
That’s your opinion and I can respect that.
Wow dev history is changing things constantly. Again, it didn’t come out of left field. Brining up the Original identity only shows that they CONSTANTLY change the class. Therefore merited.
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There’s a difference between a class/spec changing according to it’s natural path of development. For example how they have developed specs/spec fantasies since we first got those in Cata. And how they have doubled down on those.
Removing an entire specialization/playstyle in favor of something completely different(as in, to the point of that new style being an entirely different sub-role). That, is not a natural path of development. That is the definition of the opposite.
The change was intended to bring in new players? I mean…technically yes. Though the class lost more players than it gained as a result of that change so, again, the definition of a bad design choice.
Here you go:
Just a few examples from this thread.
Btw, since you were so persistent in your questioning earlier in regards to the Flavor-argument, I think this is answer enough?
Is this enough of a base for the argument of the word “Flavor” being used to excuse bad design-choices?
(And yes, the reason for why switching RSV for MSV was a bad design choice is also explained here.)
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I kinda wanna see your figures here…do you have any actual data to back this one?
and no “I know XXX hunters that did” is not data. That is anecdotal evidence.
Yes… please… whatever it takes, I miss Wrath to WoD survival hunter, it was my favorite spec.
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I thought you and I were done talking?
Uhhh, class fantasy has been around since Vanilla. Maybe YOU just got them in Cata.
Source? The source would need to have clear definitions of why people quit playing. As it could be normal drop off of players leaving the game, as usual with subscription decay.
Who says that’s not normal? why? The class has changed a lot throught out its history.
Having a pet is large part of the class fantasy. Are there specs without a pet?
For sure, but I think Ion ranks higher than him doesn’t he? If he does, he would be a more valid source, since he knows the intentions at hand.
Sadly no, because at the end of the day. A bad design choice is just… .well… your Opinion although I agree that it takes away from the hunter, i’d also add the retail hunter is no where near where it used to be. That’s why I stick to classic, and suggest the same to you.
That’s what makes the argumetn Ghorak. You’re interjecting your opinion as fact.
It did… Good hunters practiced stuter step to weave raptor strikes.
I’d have to see a source on this, maybe it was in the wow diary or an original developer said something. Also note they said INTENDED not WAS a melee spec.
I think he was wrong, but you could make a solid argument that survival was a ranged / melee hybrid. I mean you have a dodge parry cool down in the tree? The developers in your interview you kindly sourced agree. Who would know more you, or the lead class developer?
So what? ONE person?
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My favorite game of all time man. Solid design. GREAT writing. I play it once a year.
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