We can disagree if he’s toxic or not. That’s fine, but again, the debate was if he was Gish Galloping or not. I know where the passion comes from. I’m a Hunter main from Vanilla. I’ve seen my class devolved into what I think is a husk of what it used to be.
Also on him being knowledgeable i’ll highly disagree as well. This is a hunter who said he didn’t like the vanilla hunter because he had to spend money to feed his pet. When he forgot cooking is a profession.
Melee SV FTW
Exactly. Well put.
I liked how they had interview asking blizz why they made the change and pointed out how unpopular spec is, and blizz stated they knew it wouldnt be popular from start they wanted to pull players from other classes to hunter as option.
I didn’t say that. You somehow made it look as if I did.
My problem is not with people who wanted a melee spec.
But you have to understand that when there are other melee classes, taking a ranged spec away from a (previously) ranged class so you can use it to play melee, is not fair to the people who enjoyed it as it was.
Ranged Survival is alive and well on Classic
I can only respond to all your derailing later today when I’m at my PC, but what kind of nonsense is this? Cooking does not make it a non-issue. You still have to spend a lot of time (and money, actually) to level up cooking and then a lot of time farming the materials. It just means you are spending time instead of money. You are still paying a price, just not a monetary one.
Plus, there are more important reasons I don’t like classic Hunters. The core reason is that no matter what spec you’re playing you will be doing the same Aimed Shot/Multi-Shot weave from the beginning to the end of Vanilla. It’s static and boring and there are multiple class design flaws that led to this including having several of our spells scale off spell damage instead of ranged attack power. I understand it was good gameplay for the time but many people compare it directly to the modern specs and say it’s better and that we must like it for a list of buzzword-laden reasons that suspiciously sidesteps how engaging the moment-to-moment gameplay is.
P.S. I know there’s more to it in PvP but I don’t think that saves it. For one it’s a PvE-focused game and I’m a raider first and foremost. We also have a lot of stuff we do specifically in PvP in retail, too.
We’ve had this debate bepples. Theres more to the rotation than that.
I’m not going to engage your gish galloping self. Write a novel man you’re good at it.
I’m talking about bepples I got lazy and didnt want to scroll to his original post.
Oh, really? Because if I recall correctly you argued that melee weaving somehow made what I said not true.
The roation is Aimed Shot => Auto Shot => Multi-Shot => Auto Shot => Auto-Shot => Aimed Shot, and you can add something between those two Auto Shots such as melee weaving, mana potion, trinket swapping or whatever. That is still static and boring and even if I didn’t find melee weaving repulsive it punishes dual-wielding and on many fights you can’t do it. For example, I’ve actually killed Ragnaros and that fight required me to stand still in a pre-chosen location and do nothing but act as a stationary damage turret from 100% to 0%. There’s very little opportuny to express any skill or reaction so it’s not engaging.
Meanwhile, in modern WoW you can get stuff like this:
Oh hey, look, it’s ranged Survival. What a great spec.
But bepples, according to beautiful structure argument, you prefer ranged dps! Your opinion is invalid because you’re ignorant!
At the end of the day man, I’d stop the Gish Galloping. It only takes one person to expose your pseudo intellectual bull sh**.
Tl;dr
Yeah that’s what I don’t really get. They intentionally replaced an popular spec with one they knew would be extremely niche.
But then, they turn around and completely change the spec to be as close to a ranged spec as possible…
It doesn’t make any sense.
You’re arguing that my point of him being a prick is objective and that i’m wrong.
The only point i made is that, first i made clear i don’t play hunter a lot, so my point may not be an absolute, only that having the melee option is ok and that things from old Survival could be implemented in the other specs to avoid making a 4th one and complicate things.
Not liking something or preferring something else does not make me right.
What i won’t accept is some brick skull of a unit comes here and starts insulting me because he believes his point to be some sort of righteous truth that i should kneel before his infinite wisdom. When someone claims that, they lose all and any positivity and agreement from me, no matter what point they claim.
After my first post and his answer i don’t care about his points for the design, and i’ll keep saying hes wrong simply because someone like him doesn’t deserve anything in his favor, even if it was right…
I don’t know, i don’t like rewarding douches for insulting other people, you tell me if i’m wrong on that…
What i intended to do was to each point express my view on how any of those things could be implemented on any of either MM or BM.
But you know what, you’re right.
Since obviously i’m wrong here, i’ll agree you need either back RSV or a 4th spec, just know that it’s not as easy as you think it is. As someone who is studying game design and programming i can 100% assure you even going back to how it was is a big ordeal.
Keep bringing it up, use the submit suggestion feature in the game help menu and create as many threads as you want, it’ll help bring your points to devs attention.
Also post on reddit and twitter, devs do check a lot in those places, even if they don’t respond to them.
I’ll just say having knowledge of a subject does not mean a person can’t be toxic.
No matter what point is made, treating others like garbage because “they’re wrong” is catalogued as toxic here and on the moon (wrong is subjective in most of his claims, the only right parts were how the spec played, in past tense).
Classes change all the time, DKs in the past could tank or dps on any of the 3 specs. Yes, sometimes devs get it right, sometimes not (lately most not). The only reason WoW is still relevant to this day is exactly the fact that classes change.
This is why i had much more civil exchanges with Ghorak. Maybe at some point i let my disdain for Bepples seep into other responses, and for that i apologize, it does not deny the fact the Bepples is toxic and doesn’t deserve any bit of agreement on any point.
Thanks for getting back to me, I was starting to wonder if it wasn’t what you were after^^
Btw, in regards to what you said above here, I do agree with you that there’s no reason to, by words, force you into submission because of what you said.
Having said that, I do get why some players tend to be a bit more…aggressive…in their debating due to a lot of replies made by “anti-RSV” players in the past. Some of them which are beyond ridiculous. Not to mention, equally aggressive in the way they’re formulated.
Some examples from this thread:
Go play a different spec. Don’t like other specs? Too bad play a different class then.
Because nothing is added to the hunters kit other than a 4th bad spec.
Too bad get over it
Ranged survival was just MM hunters with a pet instead of on their own.
Melee Survival is actually interesting.
Ranged sv can go to hell.
Those actually being some of the milder comments made in regards to what we want back.
Not saying that it would be easy. Just saying that there are multiple reasons as for why we should NOT try to implement RSV into existing specializations. Nor should we replace those with it. Besides, it’s not like it would be easy to implement it into other specs, at least not if the goal is to provide a playstyle similar to what RSV actually did.
And, since one of the main arguments in this whole debate is that we should not opt for vastly changing or replacing existing specs/playstyles, then I would assume that this applies to BM and MM as well? Not just MSV.
Yeah.
I have my particular suggestions up on the US forums, EU forums, MMO-C and on Reddit. + What you said in regards to in-game submit suggestion-features.
I know very well there won’t be any responses. Not what I’m after.
I’ll settle for the devs taking such suggestions seriously beyond just going:
“4th spec suggestion? Let’s throw that in the bin”.
Which is what most people think they are doing.
He’s 100% toxic, and a douche bag. The reason his posts are so long, is to hide his horrible arguments in them.
He’s not knowledgeable on the class either. He’s a pseudo intellectual key board warrior. Just ignore him.
Here you go, an example of a response made by Bepples void of any toxicity. He asked a question, made a statement relying on recorded history/facts and that was it.
Ergo, not 100% toxic.
Can he be, at times? Yes. 100%? No, same as above.
You’ve already been proven wrong on this, multiple times. To the point of him actually often highlighting the arguments themselves.
And again, the posts are long because he responds to many players at once.
Which has nothing to do with what you’re trying to say.
Yes he is.
Does he know every single thing about the class? Including history and present time? No. No one does. Not even the devs themselves do so.
Not even sure what that means but, I would recommend that you take your own advice. If you don’t like reading his posts. Don’t.
I’m not sure why you continue to bring this up but it has nothing to do with the actual topic were in anyway so, just leave it at that shall we?
Continuing with this leads nowhere…