They have easy dps going for them.
How is that illogical…prioritizing a mage spec that has a high performing alternative spec over a monk which has only one DPS spec, that happens to be the lowest performing in the game.
That logic is why monk is the least played class in the game.
So ignoring that this is blatantly false…
Let’s pretend I play fire mage. I’m playing, fire mage. Not mage in general. Why does it make sense, to ignore my spec, just because arcane is pumping.
You’re treating each class like it’s the main entity. Each spec is it’s own thing. If I play arms, I shouldn’t be ignored just because fury is doing well. The two are pretty stark contrasts, and a good example.
where do you get this from and in which content?
and this too
I didn’t say ignore, I said prioritize. For DPS specs like Shadow Priest, Ret Paladin, WW Monk the only alternative if you are broke is to suck it up or make a new character.
I usually judge DPS capability by looking at Mythic Raiding since at that level corruption/gear should be near top capability. So warcraftlogs mythic raiding stats.
It looks like you guys are right, Sub rogues have manged to fall under WW in performance though. So second worst DPS spec
I play Mistweaver due to the reasons outlined in OP’s first post. I also play monk archetypes in many games but sadly never had the pleasure of playing MoP.
I think OP gave very reasonable suggestions that could make WW feel better to play and identified limiting factors in the design like SEF and scaling. Why people are getting on OP’s case, I don’t know. Blizz can improve more than one spec at once.
13 Likes
I wish you monks all the luck and love I can, WW is my favorite alt because the rotation is fun.
I hope WW gets the developer love it deserves
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Which really isn’t much more work than changing to a different spec in many cases, you realize that right.
…so you’re looking at farm logs and end of tier progression.
If you go back earlier, when things were competitive, ww was pretty consistently 17-19 in the rankings.
You can make a good point without simultaneously being dishonest or exaggerating.
Monks can tank heal or dps. Mages can not.
Arcane has a very basic rotation that would be considered boring by most.
Monks are not a bad class at all.
1 Like
So you’re saying if my WW is under performing in raid I should try to take a tank or healers spot instead of hoping they will do something to up my numbers?
A mage can keep his DPS spot by changing his spec, monks don’t have that option.
A fire mage and an Arcane mage as well as a Frost.mage use different aze gear as well as stat priority. That’s like telling me to play fury and expect to do great dps while being Arms stat priority.
A ww monks gameplay is fine. Come shadowlands it will be fine.
Not every class needs to be teir 1 at everything.
Right now both MW as well as WW are performing very well in Arenas as well as decently well on mythics.
How about we just make Hit Combo baseline and just part of the mastery instead of just getting rid of it as a whole?
I’m still pushing for Kensei monks as a new spec. Monks aren’t just masters of the fist, but they know how to swing a weapon too.
Again. You’re treating each class like that’s the baseline. Each spec is individual.
And that’s a thin argument to start with. What if you don’t need a dps? Monk can play tank or healer.
My advice give up. Every1 who doesn’t play monk wants to see our class fail. The fact that WW is horrible in PVE means nothing to most people. MW being the lowest healer by a large margin has always been the norm. MW has never been a great healer. HFC / BRF was the only time MW did okay. Like middle of the pack “okay”.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#metric=hps&boss=2335
1 monk top 500 for healers.
2 monks in the TOP 1000 healers for Shad’har. WTF? Maut is same way
Theres only 6 different healers and yet only 2 monks are able to be in the top 1000. WW is a complete disaster like this as well.
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-bfa-4/all/world/leaderboards#role=healer:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=20:maxMythicLevel=99
Mythic +
Monks / priest / shamans all look really bad right now. Maybe nerf pally / Rdruid so the other healers can see more play in mythic+??? People have this weird misconception that MW is a god in Mythic+. We really aren’t! Just because MDI uses MW doesn’t mean the rest of the playbase can do the same.
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-bfa-4/all/world/leaderboards#role=melee-dps:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=20:maxMythicLevel=99
WW is about the 3rd lowest right now for M+. If your not a ( rogue / DH / pally / warrior) your not doing so hot.
PvP i don’t do. Who cares what PVP balance is right now anyway! Corruptions have ruined pvp balance as far as I know. Also, because monk is doing good in pvp doesn’t mean it gets to be bad everywhere else.
BRM is our only spec that is good. Middle of the pack for Mythic+ but good in raids. Just because BRM is good doesn’t mean the other two specs need to be garbage. Also just wait for BRM to get gutted like the other 2 specs. I’m sure Blizzard will give our stagger mechanic to another tank soon.
Monk is the red-headed stepchild of the game right now. No reason for MW/WW to always be bottom tier for raiding/mythic+. Blizzard continues to ignore our class like it doesn’t exist. They also tend to ignore specs like SUB/MM/SURV why??? Do something with these specs and people might wanna try them. Rather than leaving them bottom tier all the time.
Pretty much if your not one of blizzards pet classes (Pally /druid/priest/mage/warrior) you get ignored. Too early to know if DH will be a pet class.
9 Likes
…literally what.
That’s objectively untrue.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/24#metric=hps&partition=2
lol…?
Monk is one of the more utilized healers in high m+ though…?
You’re missing an o in that word, but otherwise, yes. Correct.
Popularity is not the same as capability…?
Repeating this doesn’t make it true.
Why is it everyone plays the victim and claims this about their favourite class/spec.
1 Like
Everything you just claimed is unproven and has nothing to back it up. I actually gave link to give evidence. Your just another troll in a monk thread. You can’t even post on your main. Your pathetic
Funny how you posted the MW haste bug. LOL its all people will think about. That talent btw was put into the shredder and is now gone. Blizzard couldn’t even take 5mins to cap our enveloping mists at 8 targets. We don’t deserve the same treatment that Paladins get.
This is exactly how every monk thread ends up.
- People use the MW haste bug to keep us from ever getting class changes or buffs
- Random people say they play their monk once and while and claim WW/MW is great!
- Random people pick the class up and do a few Mythic 10’s and think the class is amazing OP machine.
- “Brewmaster OP OP OP OP” No other monk spec should be good because of BRM.
- Monk did good in arena for a few weeks and we deserve to be garbage for the rest of our monk lives in pve.
- Make outragous claims of monk being GOD mode in some earlier tier of raiding with no proof. (This lie is easily debunked when looking at logs of all the other tiers of raiding)
13 Likes
Why do people keep arguing the physical debuff as a major reason WW monk doesn’t need a rework?
First off the physical and magic debuffs that monk and DH bring are just dumb to start with and shouldn’t have been added to the game in the first place. Second, monk bring the debuff, not just WW, so it’s not really a reason to bring or unique strength of WW.
The spec has been broken and buggy for years at this point and needs attention. Oh but, you lost an arena match to a WW Because your teammate burst into touch of karma so nerf, nerf, nerf.
10 Likes
Well Op at least your not a sub rogue.
Idk, I think WW monk is fine as is. They’re decent in PvE and great in PvP.
Only thing that I think is in need of fixing is the SEF bug where the clones aren’t able to hit the target.
1 Like
Comparing glimmer to that insanity is not even remotely reasonable. That said, you said mw was a complete disaster. All I did was show that that’s not the case. You’re not trying to argue in good faith, why would I.
Interesting.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/5#metric=hps&difficulty=4
Typically between third and fourth.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/6/#metric=hps&dataset=99×pan=1000
Typically between third and fourth.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/7/#metric=hps×pan=1000&dataset=99
Right around third, consistently.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/8/#metric=hps&dataset=99×pan=1000
Second to third.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/10/#metric=hps×pan=1000&dataset=99
Fourth to fifth.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/12#metric=hps×pan=1000&dataset=99
Fifths, sometimes last, sometimes fourth.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/11#metric=hps×pan=1000&dataset=99
Fifth to last
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/13#dataset=99&metric=hps×pan=1000
Fifth to last
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/17#dataset=99&metric=hps×pan=1000
Fourth to last
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#region=2&metric=hps×pan=1000&dataset=99
Second to third
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/21#metric=hps×pan=1000&dataset=99®ion=1
Fourth
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/22#metric=hps&dataset=99×pan=1000
Third to fourth
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/23#dataset=99&metric=hps×pan=1000
Fourth to last
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/24#dataset=99&metric=hps×pan=1000®ion=1
Third to fifth.
Then there was the spike from the insane use of corruptions. The kneejerk nerfs after that point has monk left at the bottom.
This all goes pretty hard against your claim of;
Or they see the available data that clearly shows it’s not nearly as bad as you claim. And historically, hasn’t been.
…what?
Monk’s been pretty consistently very strong in pvp most of the expansion,
Again, you said I provided no proof, but why do I need to link to everything I say, when every scrap of data is publicly available.
It is when considering group composition.