It did just occur to me kids on a troll warrior… I got geb8ed…
And Surv, Feral and Arcane.
You obviously have no clue what your talking about when it comes to healing. Most of the logs you posted all had monks near the bottom if not the bottom. Even if Disc is the bottom HPS this doesn’t mean its bad. Disc has Reduce Damage cd’s which increases its value greatly. There’s more to raid healing than just raw HPS. However if you’re a pure healer like monks, you need to have incredible hps numbers. We never seem to be above Hpriest or Rdruids.
Disc priest / Hpally / Rshaman will likely be meta for awhile due to their CD’s. Hpally shouldn’t even have a reduce damage cd because of how much raw HPS it can put out.
Your HPS number links even showed the scaling problem monks have. The start of the expansion has monks middle of the pack but by the end of the first tier the healing is bottom. Its not even just a HPS problem but more a lack of real raid CD’s. Not to mention currently our healing is for non-threatening damage. We do a bunch of small heals to the raid which isn’t enough for mythic raiding.
Also pally Glimmer is a perfect example of how Blizzard will soft nerf other classes. Glimmer was S+++ tier before the target cap and now is only S++ tier. Monk Enveloping mist was the exact same style of healing and was ruined. Blizzard couldn’t even take 5mins to cap our enveloping mist like glimmer. The abuse of ineffable Truth that other classes are doing shows Blizzard doesn’t mind Hpriest/pallies being OP. Why is it Okay for fire mages to be doing 400k+ dps? Or Hpallys doing 300k + hps? We couldn’t do it.
All the data is out there and it still says monk is always near the bottom. HFC / BRF was the only time MW monk did okay (maybe 3rd). I even said this. Every other tier is garbage ESPECIALLY after the 7.0 rework. Your very first link confirmed how bad monk was for SOO. Probably bad since Disc priest wanted our healing style and got it.
Dude you have no clue what your talking about and your on an alt STILL. Your main probably doesn’t even touch mythic+15 or mythic raiding.
Your still a troll and every1 in the thread knows it. Typical Monk thread filled with trolls from other classes that want monks to be trash tier.
6 Likes
I actually stated where they ranked in each individual one. Pretty common to find them between third and fourth place, occasionally hitting second or last. Neither third, fourth, nor fifth qualifies as being, “MW being the lowest healer by a large margin has always been the norm. MW has never been a great healer. HFC / BRF was the only time MW did okay. Like middle of the pack “okay”.”
Aside from the many logs I just linked where you consistently were. If anything, holy priest has far, far more room to gripe than mw monk, honestly.
They don’t show that at all…?
Balance is dictated by a lot more than just “scaling”. Honestly, that hasn’t really been a significant factor since Wrath/Cataclysm. Tier, legendaries, and expansion-specific systems, in addition to buffs and nerfs, have far more impact.
Glimmer was objectively too strong, and was nerfed. Then, it’s interaction with essences and corruptions made it too strong again, and it was further nerfed. Three total nerfs.
MW monk spiked, out of nowhere, and the numbers it was putting out with it’s corruption interaction were miles above anywhere glimmer ever was. The height of glimmer was pathetically low compared to the height of mw. The nerf was heavy handed, because it needed to be.
And you were wrong.
This is factually incorrect. I just linked every raid since WCL was first made. You’re simply incorrect.
Why would anyone specifically want a class to be weak. That’s incredibly silly.
My very first link has monk being between third and fourth on nearly every fight in a 14 fight raid.
Like literally what are you talking about.
I enjoy monk. I do think we need a bit of work.
I don’t have many things I necessarily want changed but the two big things for me would be nice to scale Xuen off us as a whole instead of haste for its auto attacks and vers/crit for its package.
Something you might have missed is that it’s replacing ToD’s effect in addition to what it’s doing in terms of damage. So we get a larger window of damage after it pops off.
I’d personally like to see more viability for Serenity users like myself. I’ve been making it work with Clockwork heart because I can ToD and use two Fists if Fury within it’s window every minute. But there’s no way to build similar to this in the future and it’s a sub-par talent compared to the value RDK+SEF gives.
The other thing I’d like is for Karma to not be forced into being both an offensive and defensive CD.
Your very first link of SOO had 1 monk on the front page with everything else being disc / Rshaman.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/6#metric=hps
you mean this ?? Where 3 monks on the first page? O that’s right because everything is being dominated by Hpally / disc priest / druid again.
So when you post the raw HPS numbers you don’t actually see how theres 1 monk per 10pallys or whatever other class. Perfect example would be world first N’zoth kills had 400+ pallies and only 10 monks. Monks are hot garbage when it comes to healing. Most people that Mythic Raid know this to be true. Hence why the monk is the lowest played healer for progression. Its fun to play the monk after everything has been killed numerous times and is on farm.
Shouldn’t be my job to explain to you how raid healing works. Do you even heal? Do you know anything about healer raid CD’s?? Why would you bring a monk to mythic raiding when you can bring Rdruid /Hpriest with better cd’s / raw hps.
Go look at the actual number of monks that raid and this should tell you all. Another reason when you look at logs from past tiers you only see a handful of mw monks.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/8#metric=hps&boss=1785
For instance the link above is from HFC which is 1 of 2 tiers where monk had okay hps numbers. Reaver fight was probably the best for monk healing. Yet you only see 10 monks in the top 100. You would think being a great fight for monks (1 of the best) it would have more than 10monks in the top 100. This is my point no1 plays monk because its awful on almost every fight.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/7#metric=hps&boss=1696
Oregorger ^^^
Probably the best fight for monks in the HISTORY of monks. Why can’t we ever see this happening again?? O that’s because Blizzard will never balance monks properly.
Done with you Derez. Your a troll and obviously know nothing about raid healing. I shouldn’t need to explain Reduce Damage CD value to you.
All things that WW / MW could use.
All other healers seem to see 1 fight that is dominated by them per tier. Yet monks have only seen 1 fight partially dominated since they’ve become a class. Since the 7.0 rework MW has been trash tier. It also looks like Blizzard is going to keep us trash tier in SL with how covenants are focusing on our mastery. Why?? Our mastery works with 3 of our spells.
Things MW monk needs:
- Scale better
- Mana tea off the GCD
- Uplift playstyle back. Why should Paladin steal our identity
- Bring back CHI! We’re a monk this shouldn’t be something we need to ask for. Once again Holy Paladins got Holy Power back.
- Less essence font focusing. Who actually likes healing with essence font? Its boring lackluster style.
- Bring back fistweaving.
- New mastery. Our mastery can’t even work with vivify cleaves.
- Soothing Mist… What more can be said about this.
- Could even make our statue base as well.
WW Monk needs:
- Hit Combo Whyy??? We already have our mastery.
- Scale better. << I’m not asking for much here
- 2hand << This still isn’t working on the beta. I really want it.
- WDP made baseline. Really good cool ability that all WW should have.
- I would love to be able to Spear Hand Strike while doing Fist of Fury. Would greatly help in mythic+.
- Fist of the White Tiger << Could even make that base as well.
- Plus all the lil bugs we still have from years ago.
- Paralysis 45 sec cd?? Again why.
I’m sure there could be more.
8 Likes
The only thing WW lacks, to my understanding, compared to its other leather counterparts is group utility. DH has darkness, Rogue has shroud/tricks, druids have Innervate.
im curious about WW monks. might roll one one day.
most of them don’t perform too well but then you get the occasional beast that somehow tops meters.
there’s something to it. idk what it is tho.
Luck or bad dps in the raid if they Are topping meters. If I get tons of crits in my short burst windows the only people in raid getting close or passing me are fire mages or DHs. The other 99% of the time it’s a struggle stay out of the bottom of meters.
I love my monk. It’s consistently in the top 4 dps of our raid team. If your monk is having trouble then you’re not speccing it correctly. The class is very sensitive to which azerite traits/essences/corruptions you stack. Not unlike a lot of stuff in this game. If they were to apply an across the board buff to monks then the ones that are correctly gear stacked would be OP AF.
How does that translate to monk being the " the lowest healer by a large margin" (Hint; it doesn’t)
So, I’m not sure if you understand this, but
with how healing works, especially by the end of the tier, healing tends to be extremely cheesed. Typically, one to two specs each tier are exceptionally capable of that. Sometimes, a fight will work exceptionally well for one spec or another in doing this.
Not being on the front page, is not the same as being “the lowest healer by a large margin”.
World second Garrosh had a mw monk. World third Imperator margok had a mw monk. World second archimonde had a mw monk. World third and fourth Helya had a mw monk. World 1-10 Ghuun. World 6, 8, 12, and 14 Jaina. World 7 and 10 Uunat.
So…what exactly were you saying?
Says…who? You, your guild? Almost two-thousand guilds have killed Nzoth and you’re still only 9/12. Now you’re the expert?
Luckily, it’s still not.
…lol.
L O L
I literally can’t with you anymore. I just linked all the tiers where monk is almost constantly between third to fifth out of six. And you’re still trying to complain that it was only ever good in those two tiers.
Literally get out.
I mean, not even close, but sure…? like what
Utility is the one thing it doesn’t lack.
Troll troll. Omg if u think monk raid utility is great IDK what to tell you. HFC / BRF was still the best times to raid as monk.
If monk is so great in past tiers why is the population of monks so low?? Magical how all the low population specs are hot garbage.
You don’t even play monk. Like most of the other people that come in here saying monk is great. You obviously don’t understand how valuable Disc / Hpally / Rshaman cd’s are. Rdruid / Hpriest are just better raw healers.
Not to mention Rdruid / Pally being god tier for Mythic+ constantly. End of legion had the same healing specs at the top of Mythic+.
Sounds like you should actually raid a tier or two.
Still wont post on your main. I wonder why. Always alts that say monks are doing good. Trying to hide on ur lvl 11 warrior is sad.
6 Likes
Popularity and capability do not have a direct relationship. Correlation =/= causation. Strong specs are sometimes unpopular, weak specs are sometimes popular. One plus one equals two. Breathe in, now breathe out.
ok
ok
Brilliant how you didn’t address a single point.
Once again if monk was so great it would be more popular. There’s a reason you don’t see Sub / Surv / MM hunters right now. This includes MW/WW. You see them most in PVP because that is the only place they’re good.
O what about arcane / frost? O that’s right! Everyone is too busy playing fire because it’s so good.
Hmmmm Where else can we see this trend???
How many people play MM/Surv??? O wait every1 again…is playing BM because it is so freaking good.
Warlocks: Every1 plays Destro. What a shock.
This trend of playing the best spec in the game and not playing the weak specs can be seen all over. Despite WW having an amazing rotation (fun) it still isn’t played much.
4 Likes
Do I need to hold your hand for you to understand?
Brewmaster has consistently been one of the stronger tanks for a long time, yet is not the most popular tank played. Paladin and warrior as well. Why is that?
Literally took twenty seconds to come up with that example. Think before you speak. The data for all of this is very publicly available, going back years. You keep citing links, but what you’re trying to prove is not supported by what you’re showing.
WW is op in SL lol
No i think BRM is very popular in the progression raids.
Another person with an alt claiming a monk spec is OP. What a shock
This is how all monk threads happen. And your talking about BETA numbers which will change 10x over. MW looked really op in BFA beta but was nerfed down.
- People claiming monks are crazy OP
- Or people with alt monks claiming they top the damage meter in their raids
6 Likes
Because it IS OP lol fool
Just another alt.
If your going to try and post about Monk balance at least show you play a monk. Make it look like you care about monk balance.
WW is weak right now because of all specs they’ve been the least able to abuse corruptions. For comparison, specs like fire, arms, and destro have been doing absurd damage by stacking %secondary corruptions as much as they can take, whereas WW has been having difficulty finding a corruption they can abuse to nearly the same level. As for raid viability always being F tier WW monk was the best melee in Antorus (and during legion WW was so required in M+ they were nerfed even before rogues) and were mid tier in BfA until EP, so I’d say it’s a phase, kinda like what every spec in the game goes through at some point or another.
3 Likes