Please Fix Wintergrasp. (Include Ideas)

[Harsh-uldum (Harsh)]

I didn’t play past season 1 in BFA, I quit after getting my elite set. I haven’t been back to PvP (BG’s specifically) since they added back in WinterGrasp.

I was surprised when I saw it, and nostalgia hit me until I realized the BG is a shadow of what it once was…

It’s truly strange that they added back WinterGrasp and not Strand of the Ancients. (Strand was basically a smaller version of WinterGrasp that had two rounds to make it FAIR).

The Problem:

Wintergrasp is an RNG win. If you’re offense you lost 90% of the time, if you’re Defense, you win 90% of the time. (in my personal experience you lose 100% of the time if you’re on Offense).

I have played 13 Wintergrasp games since the SL launch. I have won this BG 3 times, and lost it 10 times. (Can you guess which side I was on for the 10 losses?)

The Observed Issues:

Vehicles do far too much damage (to Players):

Cata’s used to be a joke vehicle in Wrath. You would mock people for choosing them. Now they crush players with the fire damage. They can delete even a healer spam healing. This is stupid, and was never like this in Wrath.

Vehicles do far too little damage (to Walls):

Walls either need their HP reduced by nearly 50% or the vehicles siege damage needs to be buffed.

It takes too long to get through just 1 wall, let alone 3. I have played 10 Offensive WG games and I’ve only downed 1 wall in 10 games. (Something is seriously wrong with that!)

Conclusion:

Rounds need to happen in this game, or you need to remove it. It’s not fair to reward one side a massive Honor gain, while they didn’t have nearly as difficult a time to achieve it.

Offense is nearly an Auto-Loss (and is in my experience), and the vehicles do far too much damage to players, while doing far too little damage to walls.

Something needs to change. If you like this style BG, fine… bring back Strand of the Ancients.

[Shadowblades-nazjatar]

Blizzard needs to fix the demolisher bug.
Essentially, the demo ranged attack doesn’t do ANY damage to the inner walls. (Only the Ram works, requiring Melee range.)

@Harsh-uldum

If you’re offense you lost 90% of the time, if you’re Defense, you win 90% of the time. (in my personal experience you lose 100% of the time if you’re on Offense).

I agree that Defense has the advantage, but the extent of the advantage is also a player issue (“L2P issue”). Most people on offense blindly go SR, even when going SR is a bad idea.

Here’s an alternative strategy:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/755331993

@Harsh-uldum

Cata’s used to be a joke vehicle in Wrath. You would mock people for choosing them. Now they crush players with the fire damage. They can delete even a healer spam healing. This is stupid, and was never like this in Wrath.

I disagree that this is a bad thing.
Essentially, you want Catas to be useless. I disagree. Every vehicle should have a purpose.

Cata: Anti-infantry, but bad siege damage.
Demo: Hybrid, Good Vehicle/Player damage and Solo Siege Damage, but not the best.
Siege: Best Siege Damage, but low damage to players.

If Catas were useless in Wrath, then Wrath did it wrong in my opinion.

[Harsh-uldum (Harsh)]

@Shadowblades-nazjatar

I agree that Defense has the advantage, but the extent of the advantage is also a player issue (“L2P issue”). Most people on offense blindly go SR, even when going SR is a bad idea.

L2P issues, while giving a strat guide doesn’t really help a random 40 man Pug. Most players don’t spend their days reading through strat guides, etc. This is why Defense is such an auto win. (Is it possible to win, with an amazing strat? Sure, but it’s not the norm, and shouldn’t be balanced around that)

@Shadowblades-nazjatar

I disagree that this is a bad thing.
Essentially, you want Catas to be useless. I disagree. Every vehicle should have a purpose.

I don’t disagree with you, that the Cata’s should have a purpose, but right now they’re FAR, FAR too strong. They do nearly 6k damage a second with no down time and superior movement speed that can’t be impeded. I just got out of a winning (Defense) game that I had a cata and killed a 10 man group with 1 cata single handedly. This should NEVER happen.

[Warzug-mankrik]

It’s just not a pug-friendly bg at all. Unless you zone into a defense game, you almost need a premade or a partial premade to make it work. It’s a very punishing map for a group of random/uncoordinated pugs… if your team falls behind, they stay behind and sometimes fall even further behind as the match progresses.

In it’s current state the best thing to do if you zone into a WG offense game is wait to see how the first teamfight goes (…on the off chance that a miracle happens), and then just afk out if your team gets wiped.

It’s no surprise, it’s no coincidence that the posters on here that have a favorable opinion of this map also just so happen to run it with premades/groups (Inemia, Gov, Pako, etc etc).

Any bg where you “need” a premade or a partial premade to succeed is not a well designed bg. Random bgs are supposed to be pug-friendly since this is the most bottom/entry level LFR-tier form of PvP in the game.

[Shadowblades-nazjatar]

@Warzug-mankrik

It’s no surprise, it’s no coincidence that the posters on here that have a favorable opinion of this map also just so happen to run it with premades/groups

…Alright, I see your point lol.