Wew, I triggered you big time for some reason. Not even gonna tackle this one no matter how wrong it is because it’s blatantly emotion-laced. Not at all fun to engage with someone who can become this emotional over fictional characters in a video game.
Kinda fascinating for you to do a complete 180 in personality though when a character you actually care about is targeted when you remained so calm and diplomatic when it was about Turalyon who you couldn’t care less about. I’ll keep that in mind for the future.
Yeah, I’m a bit touchy about Rah, because I am reasonably afraid Blizz will due is “oops” their way into a “Genocide is OK, as long as its just cultural … and an Alliance race doing it”. Which since they’ve already created a situation where the only way a member of a Horde race can prove themselves “not evil” is by being as submissive and convenient for an Alliance on as possible … it is a reasonable concern.
I am also sick to death of Horde characters being villain batted, let alone ones of races who … quite literally have no other representatives left in this absurdly Hero Driven game. In a game where if you don’t have reps, let alone well developed ones (in which Rah is not) … you’re PC race might as well not even exist in the story. You, oh OP, you created an entire thread about not villain batting Turalyon should at least understand that concern. Though, the Alliance hasn’t had to put up with that situation even once … and they have an absurdly robust character roster left to them. The Horde has NO ONE LEFT! And Blizz REFUSES to put in the work to build up new ones or develop old ones! And its been like this for over a decade!
They’re already doing that, and they did so in the past already. Are you playing Shadowlands? Have you seen what they are setting Sylvanas up for? Did you ever play Starcraft 2 where they did this exact story the first time? Literally Kerrigan = Sylvanas. It’s extremely obvious.
They are also developing characters for the Horde, the Horde is just throwing fits over what they’re getting. As far as having characters that don’t do anything. This is a both factions issue.
Yeah, I’ve long since realized that the only character the Devs were invested in on the Horde was Sylvanas. And yes, I understand the Kerrigan risk with her. But after 4+ years of being shamed by the writers themselves for what they themselves chose to do with our faction; and over a decade of them showing they’d rather do anything else but rebuild the Horde after they’ve had their fun … I’m a little touchy about the subject of further villain batting. Especially since Blizz hates the idea of giving motivations for those bouts of “Evil X Horde Race LOL! It’s just what they do!”. Or validating them.
And generally, I could care less about Rah beyond this thematic isssue (and the mechanical one where she is literally all the AU Mag’har have, and she’s super bare bones as is). But when the OP of a thread titled "Please don’t give Turalyon the Villain Bat" starts suggesting that we villain bat more Horde characters … I got a bit triggered. Not going to lie. Especially since I as a Horde player agreed that I’d hate to the see the Turalyon outright villain batted. But apparently its fine if its a Horde character.
I’m a little touchy about the subject of further villain batting.
The characters you like being villain batted you mean. You’re not touchy about villain batting at all, your just are fussy, and want the Alliance to lose characters so you feel better?
I’ve never demanded a single character get villain batted. Not on the Alliance or the Horde. Turalyon I could see in a theoretical temporary antagonist role only, and only under the right circumstances … but not beyond that. And even my little fan-concept of that scenario gives him plenty of outs and justifications for his actions. But, again and again, I see Alliance players demanding the further villain batting of more Horde characters. Largely because they want to vent some frustrations, get some hits in, and reassert their power fantasy … but not actually get their hands dirty doing it. So … they need a Horde to “start it”.
…And they default to either Geya’rah, Talanji, or Rokhan (since the first one made an edgy comment moments after she saw the end of her world and the majority of her people, and the latter two weren’t outright on board with the armistice). And Geya’rah, despite anything else (and as little development as she has), has been established as caring deeply for her people’s well being. And the AU Mag’har could not be in a worse position right now. For her to rock boats for a personal irrational grudge, would doom them all.
I’ve never demanded a single character get villain batted. Not on the Alliance or the Horde. Turalyon I could see
Largely because they want to vent some frustrations, get some hits in, and reassert their power fantasy
This is so wrong. If you think the Horde’s roster are incapable of having action in the story, I just can’t understand how you don’t see this as being worse for the Alliance.
It’s not your complaints about the story that are ridiculous it’s how you claim to see all this crap that’s totally phony. Just admit you want Alliance characters to die so you can feel better, and take a breath. Geya’rah saying that about the Draenei doesn’t make her evil, but it’s as telling as it can be that she’s making statements about killing them all. So far I’m not seeing any Alliance playerbase calls to do something wrong, and get away with it scot free. They’re asking to literally be allowed a shred of dignity in the presence of the aggressor, greater victim status faction. Just admit it.
I don’t want Alliance characters to die. I dare you to find a single post where I am requesting this. I even constantly say I am sick of this 1v1 trading of reps because its stupid, and arbitrary. I have been very, VERY consistent on that point. I don’t even care about Alliance characters beyond being forced to work with them constantly; rather than seeing my own characters ever get development. Or those few Horde characters that are present, merely being made into accessories and sidekicks to Alliance ones (and their stories). But beyond that, I’m glad you guys got a robust roster and don’t want you to lose it.
I just don’t want more of the Horde cast to die. The Faction Roster for the Horde is so bare-bones its ridiculous. We started out with less than the Alliance to begin with, then after two rounds of villain batting and over a decade of massive neglect we’re pretty broken now. And this is a game you absolutely need developed characters and representatives to find any semblance of relevance in the story; with how Hero driven it is. Do you get that is my core issue, and why hitting even a character like Rah with something like that (when she’s barely a character, and yet she’s all the AU have) is a problem for me?
Blizz starts putting in some massive work to actually develop our laughably underdeveloped; underused; and frankly really underpowered character roster (at least the Racial leads) … then we can talk.
You just need the right type of catalyst to convince Turalyon of what he should already sort of think giving his experiences. That we’re evil monsters and a danger to ourselves and others, that need to be saved from our worst selves.
. Do you get that is my core issue, and why hitting even a character like Rah with something like that (when she’s barely a character, and yet she’s all the AU have) is a problem for me?
These are both quotes of yours. So the idea of you even advocating for a knock to Turalyon is absurd, and why I’m asking you to calm down, and have some hindsight about this story that you’ve apparently held nothing, but hatred for for the last 10 years.
Now, I don’t have a quote of you claiming to need Turalyon to die. But, now you can try to find one where I need Geya’rah to die. Or, that I need her to be functionally evil without a MC.
Why do I even need to find a quote of you calling for him to die, when we all know how much HOWLING would come from him so much as ruffling a feather on the Horde, with the insication he’s going to live through it, or the Horde isn’t allowed to kill his mother, wife, and children over the hair tossle? Just be honest Droite. I admire the passion, but I’m losing my respect for you, and I’d rather not considering.
The primary difference between these two. Turalyon is in a massively powerful position within the Alliance right now; backed what once was one of the more shady elements of SW … and a Dread Lord. While both of them are “Fish out of water situations” … only Turalyon finds himself in a position to actually do anything with it. And even here, even if he were to get a bit of a Ner’zhul treatment, I neither expect nor demand he die. Just make a mistake and then have to deal with it. And thus, growth!
Geya’rah may be a member of the council, but she has not real authority. And she knows it. Her people are out of time and space; homeless; and are a tiny fragment of survivors from AU Draenor. They are so dependent on the Horde atm its why it made total why sense she would not turn against Sylvanas in 8.2.5 (for two Orcs she never met). Thus, she is in no position to do a damned thing but maybe tip off the Horde about the AU Lightbound. At least not without endangering her entire race.
That’s the problem with her. She has no real influence to do anything but drag her literal lifeline off a cliff for at best … a misplaced suspicion and grudge. Turalyon has no such restrictions.
Worst case scenario, does someone need authority from the horde council if someone like Talanji decides to make an unprovoked attack to break the current ceasefire? I’d imagine the horde would be obligated to support it whether they want to or not. Something like that barebones entrapment scenario with BFA.
Frankly, with Blizz’s history of writing Horde I don’t expect there to be any valid justifications if they decided to do anything with Rah. And no, the major difference between these two narratively boils down to “which of the two has the power to act, and which one does not”. Geya’rah, does not. I get that mechanically there are restrictions as a PC race, but on a story level she can not act on some blind grudge without endangering her people’s last lifeline. Turalyon also doesn’t really have to worry about that. The guy is a world renouned Alliance War Hero and Paladin … he had a ton of influence before he was made interim High King (and backed by the HoN). He has means and opportunity, she does not.
And generally … I haven’t seen anything “Geya’rah” needs to be held accountable for yet. Outside of a single comment, that could probably be dealt with if she were to just have some … measured time with the MU Draenei. She can’t even be slapped with “sins of the father” since she’s the Frostwolf’s kid. And honestly, maybe there could be a really nuanced story between the Iron Horde legacy and the formation of the Lightbound (I expect that the prior did attribute to the formation of the latter). But reading through “Sermon of the High Exarch” … at least for Yrel … it kind of feels like she got Ner’zhul’d (and honestly, I don’t even really want her dead … she (like AU Grom) could still be salvaged at the end of such a story).
Whatever, you hate the story anyway. Since you seem to have issues with other people voicing opinions about characters, I’m not sure why you feel so at liberty. Characters like Genn, Turalyon, and Tyrande aren’t even allowed to seem reasonable within their character, because of the petulance or needing to see them dived an unfair, out of proportional response so the other faction can seem victorious for as long as it doesn’t bring tarnish to what should be reasonable. Whatever Droite.
I’m not sure what you’re getting at? I’ve never mentioned anything about Genn or Tyrande (beyond the prior attempting an assassination against another political powers head of state and nothing coming from it. Even from that political power itself). As for Tyrande, I would like nothing more than for her to get Sylvanas’ head and be done with it; then walking off safe and sound. Perhaps even spreading the Night Warrior’s power between multiple people to offset the “death” side-effect, but still getting some lasting boost.
Turalyon in contrast. I personally feel it doesn’t make sense for him to adhere to Anduin’s ideology. His own life experiences don’t make sense of that adoption, let alone so quickly. So, under the right circumstances, with the right catalyst, I do feel that its within his character to be tempted into an aggressive action against the Horde. Especially if a 3rd force (like the Lightbound) were there to offset any Alliance costs (and tip the scales vastly in their favor). And with the House of Nobles and a Dreadlord backing him.
EDIT: Genuinely Vuld, I feel like you tend to just bring in conversations you have with other people and try to use it against me sometimes. As if you have so much contention with other Horde posters, they’ve all sort of bled together? Which is why you keep making accusations like “I want characters dead” and “I want to villain bat Turalyon” … which are easily proven false. I’ve never implied either.