Why do I have to deal with forced straight representation constantly but the second there’s even a little bit of LGBT representation it’s “forced”?
Why is this double standard acceptable?
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It wouldn’t be flaunted if it were normalized, but anytime any person or company tries to do that, it’s forced. The mere mention or existence to the public eye makes it forced, and as long as that trend continues, it’s existence will be flaunted at every turn.
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While the fact of life is true, there certainly is such a thing as forced LGBT representation. Is it the case here? Eh not really from what I have seen personally, but in other games there definitely is a lot of forced representation especially when it isn’t necessary or of any importance to the character. I.E in League of Legends where in a game that romance isn’t a thing and they’ve largely culled the idea of any backstory going on outside of the main focus of the game they felt it necessary for no reason “Oh btw Neeko is a lesbian.”
Like where would that ever matter in the game or be a topic of a discussion past Riot Games just saying “We have an LGBT character!” That is a case of forced representation.
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One thing I’ve learned over the years. The fastest way to ruin your chances of getting people to listen to you is to SHOVE your views down their throat.
Present your views, be polite, and even if they disagree, they have still heard it.
But when you use FORCE, people instinctively rebel.
If you can write a good story that involves LGBT characters, more power to you. But I’ve yet to see one that doesn’t feel forced or heavy handed. And that’s not a Blizzard thing, but rather a writing thing. I’ve read books by authors that tried to force the matter. It hurt the story. The story was good, until that topic came up. Again and again and again.
I’ve also read stories where it was simply a fact that characters were of that persuasion, and it didn’t hurt the story. It’s not easy finding the balancing act of forced vs a natural and smooth part of the story.
I’ve seen stories that don’t force the issue. I mean, quite often in anime (yes, I know, weeb) you see characters that are gay or lesbian (more lesbian) and nobody bats an eye about it. In fact I’ve even seen some very cute anime where the main characters were lesbian.
The flaunting part comes about when you do a story like “GAY character does this!” or “LESBIAN Character is Tormented!” instead of “This character, who happens to be gay, is struggling with this issue.”
What makes it annoying is when its the FOCUS. I have a friend who is bisexual. I’d known him for years when this happened. One day he makes a comment about his significant other. I made a comment about “her” and he was “uh, my SO is a guy. I thought you knew I was bisexual.”
And I was “oh … no … I didn’t.”
Real awkward moment there. Seems I was the only person there who didn’t know. It was just who he was. He didn’t force it. It’s not his defining trait.
That’s the problem with too many stories. They make it the defining trait, instead of simply one of many.
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You normalize it by not making it like some groundbreaking accomplishment to acknowledge that gay couples are a thing. The reason people are getting sick of LGBT as a group, including people who fall under those categories of people (myself very much included here) is because they do a lot that while well meaning only exacerbates the problem.
I think the best way to explain it is this. If gay couples and straight couples really are just no different, why do we need to constantly praise any company that shows a gay couple? We should treat them just the same as a company that shows a straight couple.
It’s the same thing with racism. The bigotry wouldn’t exist if we were ever allowed to see different groups from ourselves as being basically us just with a different skin tone. I believe the term people like to use for this is “colorblindness.” Well, suddenly colorblindness is bigoted because you’re now discounting that person’s heritage because apparently that is the most important and defining aspect about a person and not their personality.
The general idea is that everyone should be able to see each other as just like them with different interests or genetics, basically we should see each other as humans. The very fact groups acting in supposedly the best interests of a group of people choose to make their sexuality or race something super important only further encourages people to see themselves as different.
And when you continue to do that, don’t be surprised when people’s resentment towards gay couples begins to diminish because they’ve become conditioned to believe that gay people are just inherently different from them. LGBT’s core message in 2008 when I was getting kicked around by classmates for supporting gay rights used to be “We’re people just like you, why are we denied these privileges?” Now their messaging is basically “We’re different and therefore need dedicated representation.” Either you’re different from me, or you aren’t.
You act as if we didn’t try that.
Stonewall. A RIOT had to be done just to get the ball rolling. That is the process of normalization.
After awhile you stop caring how non lgbt are “sensitive” to us after all this stupid time
Except that many have gone too far, and you risk losing what progress you’ve made by forcing it. Especially when you have political figures taking advantage of it for political / financial gain.
Yet we’re not murdering people just for being lgbt like the nons did.
And cue the “BUT THEY ARE THO” from Frostera
I disagree that it’s hard to strike the balance. You write a character, their sexual attractions are a footnote. The important thing is basically not defining the character by their choice of bedmates. It’s also the issue with people in general who choose to define themselves by their orientation as opposed to their character. This isn’t something specific to homosexuality either, just people in general. It’s like people associate with a group, then that group becomes their identity as opposed to their individual personality.
I’ve lived my life on one very simple philosophy: “I will strive to be a cool person that happens to be trans. I will not be a trans person that happens to be cool.” I feel a lot of people have gotten it backwards, and I would easily say that’s why the idea of normalization has either met a halt, or regressed.
People don’t hate vegans for their lifestyle, people hate vegans because they never shut the hell up about being vegan and dislocating their shoulder patting themselves on the back in the process. Change “vegan” for literally any group of people.
Seem to be a US thing.
Here in Japan at tis point trans is so accepted they have several trans tv stars on their shows out there. And its not like Look…We have a trans. Its just what they do.
Any bit they do are handled the same as any person’s segments.
They are just there like the other like 10 or so Japanese celebs who work these show circuits.
One time staying at a Tokyo Disney related hotel one of the more famed trans stars I know was doing their comedy show at the hotel we were staying at. If the tickets were cheaper I’d have gone. I like their comedy routine. But….those tickets were in the 200+ range. I didn’t like them that much lol.
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Thus my example of my friend who is bisexual. It’s just part of who he is. The reason I said its not easy is you have to think about whether their sexual preference matters to the story or not. If it does, then you have to approach it with care.
If its just part of who they are, part of their background, then its simply material to make them feel more believable. As such, you can gloss over exact details.
I write, and quite often I’ll have notes about characters that are nothing more than background material. Like the main character in a story I’m writing now. He has a cat. The cat is mentioned in two scenes. It just fleshes him out and makes him feel more human.
It’s of zero importance to the story. His sexual preference is implied in one scene, and never again discussed, because he could be gay and it wouldn’t change the story one bit.
So, when creating characters, you have to think about what the story is about. If its about persecution for your sexual beliefs, then its of course majorly important. If its a spy thriller, it might never even come up in discussion.
I mean. Veganism is a choice ( unless it’s for medical reasons ). Being Trans is not.
Yeah, I guess I didn’t consider within regards to context of the story which is a fair point you bring up.
I think the main issue is that it is grandstanded on whether it is relevant to the story or not that makes people really hate it. Which kind of dials back to what I said earlier with regards to normalization backfiring. It’s been grandstanded on as a subject so much people are naturally just going to presume it’s a book with an agenda to be pushed primarily and discount it even if it is a really good book.
Can say the same for a lot of authors too, I know a lot of friends of mine will not touch “The Fountainhead” just because they see it was written by Ayn Rand and presume the book is overly political when it really isn’t. There’s a few hints of Objectivism in there, but it’s not as blatant as say, Atlas Shrugged.
See, the funny thing is that this is the exact problem OP has with other people acting as if they are the leaders who represent his sexuality.
I mean I jokingly call myself “Duke of the Gays” in my head for all the times I talk in these threads. But I don’t speak for all of them
This. They sell this crap like Jehovah’s witnesses damn near lol.
Have you tried the vegan 7 day challenge?
No.
Scared you will fail?
No…I know I will fail. About the only dinner I get that does not involve a dead cow, pig or chicken on my plate is the tofu dish the wife makes. And even that has tuna fish in it. I like dead cow…only 1 thing will change that. IT be the day I die lol.
So nice to see you were good about missing the core thing of what I was saying with that despite me going out of my way to make it explicitly obvious what the meaning was.
As for not being a choice, it actually kind of is, because you can make the decision to just not transition. There are a lot of trans people who at best would just have preferred to be born the other gender but it isn’t enough of a problem for them in the day to day living that it needs to be done. Note, my suggestion of “just don’t transition lmao” is not directed at the people where dysphoria is an actual problem that cripples them in real life.
There are also types who would love to transition and prefer to but won’t because they understand it won’t ever change the fact their body is riddled with y-chromosomes and it isn’t a perfect solution to a complex issue.
Side bar aside, this doesn’t discount the fact that you can willingly choose how you define yourself. It’s one of the biggest things in life you have any actual control over. If you choose to define yourself strictly as a trans person first, get bent in my book. You are a person, with a personality and interests among many other things that are more defining about you than being trans. It’s an auxiliary attribute, not a defining one.
No I got it, I just wanted to point out it’s kiiiiind of not a good comparison
But you’re still dealing with dysphoria. Hence you’re still trans.
Understood
The bloody price tag of it all is what drives me away from transitioning even if I REALLY want testosterone treatments
I mean I do agree with what you said regarding wanting to be a cool person that happens to be trans and not the other way around. To me it’s still part of me.
I may disagree with some of what you said but I understand where you’re coming from
At least Vegans have one redeeming quality. You never have that awkwardness about having to learn they’re vegan after you suggest getting a burger to eat. They all (at least the ones I’ve encountered) seem to make damn sure you know they’re vegan within 5 minutes of meeting them.