but…
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WoW presents already a mythology that mirrors Gnosticism with the Tauren creation myths.
An’she is an emanation of the Light, and the Demiurge.
Would it be so bad if the Light was “misguided” ? and Velen did have a crisis of faith. I don’t think so.
So you’re parsing; my, mistake I apologize for accusing you of quote-mining.
Anyone can be insulted by anything, the problem is how often it gets used and how the story treats it. Between this and your assessment of Velen/Turalyon/Anduin, you somewhat have a point (though on another note, I wonder whether they’re gearing up to make Turalyon apostatize too).
Illidan guessed wrong, and removing Kil’jaeden and Archimonde wouldn’t have helped since there’s a lot of Eredar who took Sargeras’ offer… plus if Sargeras got personally involved - being a bigger threat by himself than the entire Burning Legion - Velen’s group would’ve been screwed.
The fact remains the criticisms Illidan leveled at Velen apply to him too; timespan softens but doesn’t cancel that. Illidan went to join the Legion for real out of lust for magic power and envy of his brother - Richard Knaak got that wrong in his book series, and the writers retconned in a last-minute change of heart in Legion.
True, not every story goes the way I said, but what I’m saying is more common and I’m basing that trend on books, TV shows and movies I’ve watched/read or seen reviews for. A victim complex would be thinking they’re out to get me personally for my faith; that’s not what I’m arguing and my analysis of how religious people are most commonly portrayed in fiction is not a victim complex.
I think I understand where you are coming from, Thadeus.
You don’t want Blizzard to say having faith is wrong, you clearly have faith in innate goodness of humanity and I respect that. I don’t think they want to commit to any one religious philosophy with the intention to exclude anyone from enjoying the story. At the end of the day there is hopefully going to be something empowering for everyone.
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WoW borrows from various real-life religions.
The Light doesn’t fit the part of the Demiurge. Let’s say Blizzard was employing your Demiurge idea, it would have to apply to both the Light and the Void, not just the Light since the Light/Void clash caused the Big Bang. Plus the Demiurge is a nemesis, so that would involve villain-batting the Light, which I also argue against doing.
And that wouldn’t justify making Velen apostatize, especially since his crisis of faith was poorly written. It does seem Blizzard is pushing for that “faith is bad” direction. I am a Christian, my stance on humanity is while capable of goodness we are all sinners (of course including myself). You surprise me recently, Luxio, and I mean in a good way.
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Maybe. I don’t know. It seemed possibly, but he also had his aside with Anduin in Before the Storm about not being a zealot. Hard to say precisely where that goes.
I think Kil’jaeden and Archimonde have shown themselves to be extremely capable leaders and that the Legion’s effort would have been greatly harmed by their removal, No other Eredar have approached their ability.
I think timespan does cancel it out because Illidan wasn’t saying ‘hiding is always bad’. He’s basically saying ‘hiding as much as you did was bad’.
Per the Illidan novel and maybe one of the Chronicles, Illidan only joined the Legion to learn their secrets to beat them later. While a retcon, that’s the lore now.
I just don’t think religion is under attack or that loss of faith is an especially popular thing. But that’s only my perception.
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the Demiurge in some beliefs was seen and malevolent and in some cases was seen as just misguided. The material is malevolent while the spiritual is benevolent. So even though the Light is benevolent as spirit, the Light can manifest as malevolent in the material, That’s how they could justify villian batting the Light. Mortal beings risk being zealots because they are mortal dualistic beings.
But that like you said also creates the same duality in the Void. The Void can be malevolent in spirit but can manifest as benevolent in the material, and that can explain the benevolent Void characters, and why the Void Elves can exist in the Alliance as heroes and also why Shadow is a valid discipline of priests who respect this balance.
I’m not sure Blizzard would bring the same sophistication to the writing you have, Luxio.
The problem of making the Demiurge Light and Void is that the rulers of the Void have a clear goal in the lore; consume planets with Old Gods and unmake the universe. Even with the narrative bending over backwards to give the Light a bad side or villain-bat it, the Light doesn’t even come close to matching the Void’s laundry list of atrocities (Emerald Nightmare, the Black Empire, the Cult of Twilight’s Hammer, the Curse of Flesh, the Naga Empire, consuming planets…).
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I like the idea of some Naaru being level headed - Muck like A’daal has been described / who considered Xe’ra to be a tad extreme, lol.
So if anything, I’d like Velen to forge his & his peoples own path with taking into mind that not the entirety of the light is noble, but there’s at least a path within that (Say A’daal & a few other light beings + their teachings) they can continue to follow.
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It did that for StarCraft 2 so this should be a surprise to no one.
The Light of the Khala was revealed in Legacy of the Void to be a lie created by the Darkness in order to possess the Protoss!
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I frankly just like the idea that the Naaru aren’t a hive mind. Truly, the idea that they are individuals with their own capacity for differences not only makes the philosophies like those of A’Dal far more weighty; it also makes their sacrifices far more meaningful. Its not a Naaru giving up their lives due to some predetermined future, its them giving up their eternity for what they believe is important and right.
Even if there is some prophetic elements within that choice.
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I’m not a fan of Velen being villain-batted simply because I don’t want to see that spoiled, insufferable brat Anduin being even more favored by the Light.
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That was pretty much all done in the Walk of Shame he endured in Legion.
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That’s the same thing I liked about the Old Gods too to be honest. How they were at war with one another / have their own personalities, goals for their ‘vision of Azeroth’ under their sway and so forth. Made me wonder if any planned on wanting to summon a Void Lord merely to make them the puppet (Or food / battery of sorts) & not vise versa.
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Which makes me think it could be all downhill for Velen from here, and I hope that’s not the case.
He spent a chapter of BFA being down in the dumps at the Stormwind Embassy, but seems to have moved on from there.
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Velen questioning the light path and visions has been a thing since Cataclysm in his short story where he actually wanted to leave Azeroth when he saw Deathwing premonition.
Then in Warlords of Draenor AU Velen we see a Velen not willing to let the prophecy of his people getting wiped out so he just sacrifices himself.
In Legion Velen had quite a lot of developing during the assault on exodar, tomb of sargers and the invasion of Argus.
I think it was well written how he is less “light fanatic” now and takes action by himself.
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Velen was never a “Light fanatic”. Trusting and serving a higher power doesn’t mean a person is a fanatic. He had good reason to trust the visions when they kept proving accurate; if anything, he’d be stupid to disregard them.
How was he “defying or questioning the Light” by wanting to leave Azeroth during Cata? That vision/prophecy sounds like a warning, not orders to stay on Azeroth. Same with AU Velen; his vision of the Draenei’s defeat sounds like a warning rather than the Light wanting either Velen or the Draenei to die.
Velen having a crisis of faith over Rakeesh in Battle for the Exodar is poorly written - a prophecy he suppressed because he didn’t want it to happen came to pass which doesn’t prove his Light unreliable - and there was no examination or crisis of faith at the Tomb of Sargeras; Kil’jaeden even said with his dying words that he envied Velen’s faith and vision, and we know what happened to Kil’jadeen when he didn’t heed Velen’s prophecy back on Argus all those millennia ago.
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I definitely sided with Illidan. Xe’ra was annoying AF the entire expansion before that moment, and then she tried to force herself on Illidan. I’d blow the chandelier to bits as well.
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Everyone’s entitled to their own view… just as I consider Illidan a fel junkie who’d rather kill than give up his fix. While I wasn’t fully on Xe’ra’s side there, I found that cinematic was such edgelord cringe all it was missing is Illidan having a fedora, a trenchcoat, a katana and the line “Nothing personal, kid.”
My concern is that same “muh edginess” carelessness will be brought to Velen’s story.