To be honest, the take away I got from this is the gearing progression path in modern WoW is so insanely stupid fast it’s crazy. The “progression” aspect to it is basically gone.
And sure add Malefic cores to the weekly PvP and mythic+ chests.
Not really any different than any other expansion.
Classic doesnt have Mythic, they just have Raids. You can 100% be Pre Raid BIS in Classic in 2 weeks, if you play at a decent level and have decent level friends to help. I know because I just did it before coming back to retail. 46* would be about equivalent to Pre Raid geared in classic. Which is what it is here Pre Mythic Level gear.
You guys put way too much stock into gear. Gear is a tool to clear the content that your skill cap puts you in, not some reward that matters. This game is a gear treadmill, Gear progression will never be long term, or long lasting, hasnt been that way in a long time.
Also my gear is FAR from optimized, I have a few BIS pieces, but they are BIS for only a certain aspect like that 475 BSCT, thats great for ST, but as a PvPer, I would much prefer 2x 460 Uguents, so there is still better gear to pursue.
Also my gear gains as Clark said, do not represent something that is possible by the majority, that comes from doing difficult content. The cloak resist is from a face roll 15 mins a week instance.
(I dont think an 8 is hard content, but Herioc is so/so, a 15 is a tad tough which a lot of gear came from that (2 azerite 465, a 465 and a 475 from 1 15 key)
I dont understand the logic of gear being easy to get as a problem. Gear as a tool, which is all it is should never hold back a good player for very long. The game is about skill, not luck, or at least it should be.
Also, Adding the Cores to M+ Chest, and PVP chest, and keeping 1 on Vision and 1 on N’zoth and allowing you to get all 4 till caught up, would 100% be okay with me.
I would even be okay with a Echos grind whatever. I play 12 hours a day, now your going to tell me that my 100s of hours spent in a week is not relvant to the scrub that played since 8.3 launch and did an LFR and a Vision once a week and logged off. That is utter crap, and completely against the spirit of MMOs. I should be stronger than that person, and with this system I am not.
We should be rewarding Time Spent, Not Time Passed.
Comparing classic pre-raid dungeons to current heroic raids or high keys is quite insane.
I play classic as well, and have done the pre-raid dungeon spam (really fun the first time) and I have literally only had 2 dungeon rounds out of probably a hundred not successfully clear the dungeon. I’ve also never done a gear or experience check on anyone I’ve ever invited.
Heroic pugs evaporate at an insanely fast rate at xanesh/vex/ilgy/carapace/Nzoth and the successful ones are filled with mostly very over geared players fishing for a specific item or trying to parse. Try pugging heroic with most people who actually need the gear (450-455 range) and see how long the pug holds out.
This entire game is based on gear progression. Challenge modes were niche and mythic+ is mainstream exactly because CMs had no gear progression and mythic+ does
It’s the super common complaints that ghuun had a crap loot table and guilds would not even bother for reclearinf because the effort wasn’t worth the reward.
CoS was the same way. The gear wasn’t worth the headache.
Other than the first kill to say you did it, or to be part of the very niche community who pushes for fun, the power progression upgrades is the driver for participation in virtually all forms of content.
You think raids or mythic+ would be popular if they used templates and didn’t drop any gear?
There are a lot of avenues that don’t reward spending all the time at once vs spread out over months even for the same exact activities:
Weekly chests
Raid boss lockouts
Dailies
Emissaries
Why? We should be rewarding doing difficult content, not doing faceroll content for 12 hours a day.
If you spent 12 hours a day killing open world mobs you should never be even remotely close to as strong the guy who spends 30 minutes a day doing a +25 key. It was bad enough when the open world quester could get the best legendaries right away, while Mythic raiders were stuck having to delete characters and recreate them because that was still faster than getting more legendaries on a character who had gotten bad ones first. And legendaries were considerably weaker than the current iteration of “press buttons, randomly win”.
It’s okay for the best gear to come from the hardest difficulty on the current raid tier. It’s also okay to gear that’s close to that to come from tougher M+ keys. It’s not okay to have essential powerups locked behind trivial content. Good players shouldn’t be held back by trivial content, and they shouldn’t be coerced into doing it at all.
The best years WoW had didn’t have garbage systems like this. The only reason we even need to have so many catch-up systems is because we keep increasing iLvl by 300 and performance by 4000% in the span of a single expansion. And the only thing worse than having that sort of power creep is to lock the power creep behind timegates.
imo we need to tone down on the damn gear and borrowed power and just let the player’s fingers do the performance, rather than them being responsible for 30% while procs and effects do the rest of the job.
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I agree we should be rewarded doing difficult content.
My example of grinding was semi difficult Content. I been away awhile in classic, I think 15 is the new 10, or so I am told? So that is moderately difficult content.
I will agree with Argorwal, that the M+ Chest may be slightly over tuned, in the Azerite Dept, 4 pieces of higher tier gear for a 15 key felt a bit much.
I am not sure where my post lead to the assumption of 12hrs a day farming WQs, you can and I have farmed Raids and M+ for 12 hours a day, and farming Conquest for 12 hours a day is pretty much a staple in my WOW life, I am not much into PVE, I do it, I am a decent player at it but its not my first choice of content, but I am forced to do it last few expacs to PVP.
I also agree the power creep has got insane. I soloed a WB in Drustvar the other day. Was not even paying attention, didn’t even realize it was a WB till it was dead, thought it was just a hard rare, as just coming back and doing Uldum Rares right before it was about the same level.
As to this system, yes its horrid. This blocking of returning people is even more horrid which is the point I am trying to make. If I invest mass amounts of time, into doing difficult content, and am still at a much much lower power that I need for my difficult content, while a causal player that has played since patch release has massive more power, by doing nothing but a vision a week and LFR. Thats not a good game play system.
This is 100% akin to a KR PVP game complete with P2W and Daily login power shoots right now. In PVP a player with low skill, can Pay to buy carries through hard content, do their login power with visions weekly and ROFL stomp better players in PVP.
I dont even care if they do the cloak catch up, just disable Corruption in PVP where it doesnt belong anyway, and I will be 100% happy.
Because no player is an island here. Players discriminate and are choosier than ever when it comes to power progression and what they bring to groups. The prevalance if IO scores attest to this. Trying to form dedicated groups are challenging when you’re an underperforming spec, are lagging behind in DPS thanks to less corruption THANKS TO LESS CORRUPTION RESISTANCE and the same goes for arenas where you can easily plop a tank with enough twilight devastation corruption that makes destruction warlocks look like pool noodles.
The playerbase has been stratified like never before and it’s honestly this sense of entitlement of I’ve been engaged longer on this one character so I deserve to be on top of you when regardless we’re paying the same 15$ a month but have different styles and again ignoring such differences if you want to push end game content with some serious intention you are punished for any sense of alt play.
Nah man, I’m sorry. This expansion has had so much dumb FOMO mechanics since the start that it deserves to go down with WoD and cata as one of the most garbage expansions in the game’s history.
What else is there to do but to point to shadowlands to see the decisions they’ve actively made to stray from these mechanics? Most of us are saying continue that philosophy to the live game. I’ve grinded three cloaks to rank 15 in the traditional progression method, I’m sick of visions but I do not give a crap if someone got to rank 15 in 14 runs after the change.
These bloody psychological metrics are hard to argue with since we all have monkey brains but all it takes is a realization on the level of the individual to say eff this I’ll just go back to something else till things improve.
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This is why you should never subscribe to WoW until there is about 4 or 5 months before a new expansion. Then you can login, level to the current max level, and get all your gear and be set. Then quit and wait 2 years and rinse and repeat.
Translation: “This is exactly the way the game has always been. It’s not enough that I have 10x the hp of a newly leveled player, that I have the highest ilvl possible, bis essences, and a carpton of bis corruptions. I need MOAR and they deserve way less! The game won’t be epic as long as any catch up exists!”
That you, Ion? Whoever you are, you’re clearly posting on a character that has never done any difficult content while lecturing us about how important it is to do difficult content. There is no catch up in classic, just as there was none in vanilla. This character will never catch up to play end game. Is this your main?
There is 100% the ABILITY to Catch up in Classic, I have 3 60s in Classic across 2 Servers, both are geared to the Teeth, my Main on Herod was R13 when I moved servers, and my new main is Rank 10 but now I am back to retail.
The Catchup in Classic is play more lol.
Also, there is no system like this corruption one in classic that requires a “Catch Up”
As to me posting on an alt, I have already stated a few times why I do that, and it has nothing to do with what content I have or haven’t done.
It because I have already gotten a In game stalker from this forum, not looking for another. You can think what you want, about me as a Player, I really dont care tbh.
Im not sure, why you would think I am Ion? I am here saying that we need a catch up system for cores… As mostly a PvP player I could care less how PVErs gear, as long as I get Vendors back in Shadowlands.
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Catchup in classic is “get carried”. Playing more without lots of time input by other players who didn’t need to be helping you would have got you nothing.
Not really?
There is a ton of Crafted gear, you can pug your way back up to put in work in raids.
Also Again, PVPer, I raid only for weps lol.
I can PVP my own ranks without being “Carried”
I enjoyed, some PVE in Wrath, Cata and Mists, but since the removal of PVP gear, and my being forced to do it, is not fun anymore TBH. Still did it in legion and BFA, but being forced has sucked.
Besides what do you really need from raids lol, outside of weps in classic?? My Locks still Robes of Void BIS for PVP (well when I rerolled servers, but new BIS is crafted too), Still rocking double Underworld Bands, I raid for Weps PvP gear fills other slots.
Do you even play classic? Thinking you cant gear yourself lolol.
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This. If you want to catch up, you should be able to put in as much work as you want to catch up as fast as you want. Instead, you can only get X cores per week, effectively NOT letting you put in the work to catch up faster.
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A. Eh I’ll give it to you that pvp is a little unbalanced by this. M+ less so unless you’re trying to push as hard as possible, but if you’re that person you probably never took a break to begin with.
Raiding though, you don’t need max corruption resistance at all; it’s just icing on the cake and let’s you parse higher. I cleared heroic last week when I had 56 corruption resistance
I know about crafted gear. I also know about how much it costs and how long it takes to level. You didn’t level in a couple of weeks without laying out serious money. Before you started getting carried for gear.
What??? Do you play Classic??? LOL.
I hit 60 in 2 weeks of classic launch… Was full raid BIS by Week 4. Grinding, by myself and with a few friends in Dungeons that were also grinding.
We rerolled to a new server together and did it all over again, in the same time frame. Its not hard, your just bad.
What are you talking about Leveling without serious money? You literately spam Spell Cleave (Or melee if you are melee) all the way… Make a ton of Gold of BOEs, and selling junk.
I was in a Dungeon 12 hours a day, for the entirety of the first 3 weeks of classic launch lol.
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He also told me he geared up a dh in two weeks and then he pulls up his classic character story?
He’s literally lying to you
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My DH is FARRRR from Geared up lol.
I said I got 466 in two weeks, thats true. I said that most of that gear is not very optimized, I got a long way to go.
I really dont understand yalls logic. You think it takes longer than 2 weeks to hit 60 in classic? Like 40% of the playerbase got 60 in 2 weeks…
Why would someone lie about stupid things like that? What did I do in my gearing that seems lie worthy to you? I told you how I hit 466, what part is even worth lying about?? That I did a 15 key carried by friends? That I did a Herioc carried by friends? Is it inconceivable to you that people have friends?
I dont even understand what this dude is talking about spending money to hit 60 in classic. Some people work from home / own our own businesses, and we can play 12-16 hours a day. You cant, well sorry I can.
You are acting like hitting 60 2 weeks after classic launch was not the norm for the HC players. MC was Fully cleared by the end of the first week of launch, yall need to get a grip man. You have SERIOUS projection issues. If it took you 5 months to get 466, I am sorry for you, doesnt mean that is the case for everyone. If it took him 6 months to hit 60 same deal…
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