Indeed, because Classic is, and forever will be, the better game, exactly because it didnt try and abuse its players.
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nobody will miss the “missing diplomat”.
EPL/WPL
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I totally agree with the OP. It’s up to a point where I wish I could remake ne of my mains (Pandaren Female Priest) in TBC, just to have the race but play in the TBC (or WotLK, later) setting. Where I wish we’d have achievements, Dual Spec, scanning both ore/herbs at same time on minimap, linked interfaction AH and be able to mail stuff to any characters on my account… All of this while playing TBC and it’s long slug to level 70, with skill trees, classic zones, each with their own quest/mob levels. Oh and herb glitter too so I can run ground scatter 10/10 and still see the herb nodes.
It really is a different game. And IMHO a better one. Barring flying in the old world, dungeon maps and what I mentioned above, I really disliked Cataclysm for what it started with the skilltrees and making leveling totally irrelevant given how fast it was then onwards.
I think there would be a market to keep Vanilla-TBC-WotLK model and work from there if they are to make a new game style from it’s classic glory.
Thanks for bringing in classic servers Blizzard… I thought I wanted it, and after re-playing it I really did want it. hehe.
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Yeah, I’m not sure there is a lot of opinion there when it comes to an objectively bad system that was forced onto the player base because a minority of whiners were complaining about loot masters and group loot yet refusing to form their own groups because they didn’t want to.
It is a system that is noted to sometimes make bosses drop no loot for everyone (could be different from the raid scene but that has even more issue because most raiders would prefer master loot). Personally have you go several dungeon clears without seeing a single piece of loot drop, and results in a situation that is worse for the type of player that was complaining about master loot in the first place. as from what I hear it is common practice to have an individual player give up any drop they get to a loot council to decide where it goes. So that player now has to choose to either ninja an item from their guild and lose their raid spot or have an item they wanted drop for them specifically and then potentially lose it.
Subjectively.
First, folks frequently needed to run things multiple times before they got what they wanted/needed.
Second, with the old master loot system, there’s a chance that none of the drops would work for anyone in the party/raid. How’s this at all preferred?
So loot rules became controversial after personal loot?
Correct me if I’m wrong - I’m pretty sure you can’t trade an item that you got in retail if it’s an upgrade (by item level.) Besides, loot rules only matter if you run with that group. Don’t like the rules? Don’t run!
Objectively. If it was subjectively people would have used it. They didn’t.
It was introduced… people still used Group Loot and Master Loot. It was forced onto everyone taking away the other options. People still used external loot systems. It was then changed again to force you to use it by not allowing you to trade items until you had a item of the ilevel.
Objectively bad.
Yeah, but with a proper group in which everyone needs something… someone would get something. In personal loot it is entirely possible for no one to get anything. In addition to not even getting enchanting material from disenchant undesired loot.
Yeah the only time that is actually a thing is after everyone is already geared and you are going for a specific piece. In current classic that would be DST. Every guild if they are actually good hits the point where there are drops no one needs, but at the start of the tier that is never the case. Going later into a tier those unwanted items get disenchanted and with a good guild fund the raiders enchants or at least half of the cost of those enchants in cases where for whatever you aren’t getting as many disenchants. That is preferred by everyone at large. It is why personal loot had to be forced on everyone. Otherwise every guild would choose to go master looter (and most still attempt to do this through the personal loot system). The only people who perfer personal loot are the people who refuse to form their own group. This is ultimately who that system was designed for because they complained about not likely master looter or loot councils and refuse to play with “like minded individuals”.
Yep it has to be add in after guilds continued with their loot councils through the forced personal loot. People complained about their guilds still doing loot councils.
Goes to show you… that personal loot is a system that doesn’t work unless it is forced on the player base… and even then you better hope that first “upgrade” is an actual upgrade and not something you didn’t want because after that you better hand over the item to the loot council or lose your raid spot… because guilds still want their own system.
Looks like you’re still confusing “objectively” with “subjectively.” You’re also confusing “bad” with “flawed.”
The personal loot system is vastly superior, even if some guilds try to game the system (simple solution - don’t play with jerks.)
What the hell? “Proper group?” “Everyone needs?”
Group composition and “needing” loot have no bearing on drops in Classic or Retail.
So a system in which not only everyone had to be forced to use it, but then forced again in using it the way they didn’t want to use it… something that if actually given a choice no one would actually use… is something Subjective… okay then… guess history is entirely subjective.
Ah, so because Blizzard forced a system onto their players… those players are jerks. Gotcha thanks for informing me of what type of person you actual are.
If the situation was as easy as “don’t play with jerks”. Personal loot would have never came about because those like minded people would have simply grouped together and used their own “non-jerk-like” system for their group. No the situation was… those people wanted to play with the “jerks” and force them to use a system they liked. When that didn’t happen they complained about how toxic master looter and loot councils were.
A proper group aka a proper composition going into a tier would have everyone in that raid group needing some loot from that new raid. There wouldn’t be any “wasted” loot.
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There’s no forcing… The system is what it is.
I did play a little BFA before Classic hit. No one ever forced me to give up personal loot. No one even asked for me to trade anything to them. There’s no “forcing” here. It’s not even possible to force someone to give up loot if they don’t want to. You’re prattling on a iut a olayer-created problem.
Was this supposed to make any sense?
It is that easy. But apparently Blizzard has been forcing you to play with jerks. Blizzard is mean!
So are you suggesting that groups should be forced to have exactly the right classes/specs?
Ah, so taking away all other loot methods when no one was using personal loot… is not forcing it… okay this is all that needs to be said. No more need to talk about it.
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This is supposed to make sense?
People been playing on same expansion pserver for years.
I played for 5 years on the same TBC server before classic came out.
PL was good for the places it was originally designed for LFD/LFR, because it was supposed to prevent griefing. Debatably it was even fine in pug raids as well.
Outside of that it’s a pretty bad system, if world first guilds want to min max their drops, let them.
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They can still min-max. Personal loot helps prevent players from being completely overlooked.
If a player doesn’t like their guilds loot system they should find another guild. Like if you joined a guild knowing it was loot council what business do you have whining you didn’t get loot, or if they’re using EPGP or DKP, you knew it would likely be awhile before you would outbid someone.
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They actually dumbed down the talent trees for 2 reasons.
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The new talents tree design was much easier for them to balance.
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They thought it was the fix to the “meta builds” but clearly they were wrong and just stuck with the, “it’s easier to balance.”
Blizzard made a lot of these changes over the duration of WoW for their own simplicity. Another was how your mana pool increases with intellect. This too became too hard for them to balance so they changed it.
Blizzard got lazier with game design as time went on. They went from a, “it’s fun to play design philosophy” to a “well, it’s easier for us to design if we do this philosophy”
I agree with that. That being said, you could still get overlooked. In fact, you can scroll up to see me saying that, at least once. All loot systems have issues. Personal loot removes most of that drama.
The personal loot system also helps folks funnel gear to alts and new recruits.
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Sounds like you need to play SoM.
SoM is adding to and changing the game just the way players want.
Funny thing read on forums some of SoM servers are dead.
That alone should tell you adding content will not bring players back or keep players.
New games come out people go play them. Some will come back others will not and some will stay here.
All of the Classic expansion packs that Blizzard puts out will become dead.
I knew that from the first day Blizzard said they are releasing Classic.
Which happens anyways outside the very beginning of a tier.
I get that and I get why blaming the system can be better than blaming a player. Which is why I was good with PL in LFD/LFR, but in a guild setting it removes options from the guild which is bad.
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