How bad of an idea is it and will I be able to pug? I have always enjoyed the playstyle I know that its kinda doo doo for aoe but can it be brought for priority target killing or should I just stick to my shadow priest. I dont like outlaw( I know thats the meta rn) I could do sub though.
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Each rogue spec is doing fine in keys, if i were to order them it would be outlaw - sin - sub.
Sin is more talent dependent than the others though, subterfuge and crimson temptest are musts for keys.
Sin is also way more relient on stealth as well, if you can’t stealth before pulling (so if the tank is chain pulling) your dps takes a huge hit.
Biggest thing for keys as sin is keeping 4 or 5 garrote and ruptures up as well as crimson tempest. After that its funneling all that energy into envenoms in the main target.
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didnt even think about the stealth between packs. I figured sub would be pretty solid and above assi rogue
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Sub is easier to maintain decent damage, i just feel assassin shines more.
Outlaw is just straight broken right now. I also didnt like outlaw until i tried its current state. Rtb is way less of an issue than it was when it first came out
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ill give assass a try then i really appreciate it. I was worried I was going to get the feral treatment lol
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Outlaw is one button…Blade Flurry. Sin needs an AOE buff. Many other damage classes can do more single and certainly more AOE damage. At this point, the only reason I think I am brought along is because they think I am Outlaw spec…imagine their disappointment after that first pull. That and the little known to others mini damage reduction from Iron Wire. Bring back the 5% group wide damage buff we used to provide, too.
I love when people say “it’s just one button” then they go and play it, do tank DPS and look for any excuse as to why they’re not doing damage because it’s only one button right? “It must be RTBs fault!” 
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Rogues have tons of stuns, interrupts, and utility. They’ll never be in a “bad” place in keys. That said if you’re really going to aim high the other DPS spot is going to need to have pretty solid AOE unless your running Outlaw. Assn/Sub AOE is really, really pathetic so honestly your overall DPS is probably going to be more useful focusing.
I’ll be blunt. Assassin is bad in keys. Single target is average, aoe is the actual worst. Seriously, all dps and even tank specs out aoe sin. You will struggle to get into keys unless you’re in a guild or have a group of people you run with.
Season 3 I decided to see how far I could go. I reached above 3k io on my sin Rogue. I applied to a lot of 20’s and never got in a single one. The highest key I got invited to was a 17. All my 20’s were my keys or friend’s keys. When we had to pug a spot like a tank, I always got the “wow an assassin rogue”. In 2 of those instances, those tanks left after laughing at me.
More than a few times I had people say, your dps is good considering your a sin rogue. Why not just go outlaw? Why can’t I play the spec I enjoy and still do well? I reached #1 sin rogue in my server group. #57 in NA and #188 of all Sin Rogues in the world. But it was a constant struggle and I frankly, it wasn’t fun.
I got KSM all 3 previous seasons and almost all the portals. But I can’t do it anymore. I quit my Rogue on S4 after being a Rogue since WotLK.
TL:DR Don’t play Assassin.
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When 40% of Combat’s overall damage in an M+ run is Blade Flurry, and the next highest ability’s damage is 12-15% it is ONE BUTTON.
this here is how actual rogue players know you’re bad. learn to play and actually understand how the class works. Its embarassing.
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Have to help the new blades my friend.
Rogues gotta stick together. Beware of saboteurs too.
That’s… not how blade flurry works…
TL;DR: you can play m+ just fine up to a certain m+ level, so go for it. Mechanics are more important than damage. You can’t do damage if you’re dead. You have survival tools that definitely make a difference. Time on target will be difficult especially if you don’t talent into Acrobatic Strikes (increased range on your melee attacks). Other classes will beat your DPS on trash mobs or on single target, but that doesn’t become a big deal until over m15, in my opinion. So yeah, go for it. Have fun. Know some pug groups won’t take you unless your rating is really good. Don’t let it get you down.
We have a fair few survival tools, like Feint, Evasion, Cloak of Shadows, and then there are racials that can supplement those, like if you play human, Will to Survive. Keep health potions on a button because movement required to stay alive may periodically have you out of range of the healer. If you get good at using these tool, you can often survive long enough to keep dealing DPS, and longer than certain other class/specs to can. You may even outlast the tank sometimes. Most people who have been playing rogue (not just assassination) for a long time have at least one story about “rogue tanking” a boss if the tank gets killed, and surviving long enough for rest of the group to get the boss down, or for a b-rez to get the tank back. It shouldn’t happen often but it is exhilarating when it does. Usually if the tank dies you get smashed quick, though.
Assassination is artificially capped on damage. In mythic raiding, we are worst overall and around 5th on bosses. M+ is roughly similar, I think. So at high difficulty levels, groups will be able to take almost any other DPS class/spec and do better than they would with an assassination rogue. You have to beat the timer, and low AOE damage means more time spent on trash mobs, so, not a great situation.
Not all our CC options work. Cheap shot doesn’t always work. Kidney shot doesn’t always work. Kick usually works, but some casts can’t be kicked. Shiv works on most enrages, but some mobs have an enrage-like effect that we can’t do anything about. So we are capped at worst overall DPS, 5th or so on boss damage, so you’d think they’d at least let our CC work, but no.
Our difficulties in m+ are not just from how we are capped & limited in our class spec. The bigger issue is the design of the game. AOE just plain matters more than single target does. Period. AOE soothes & CC matter more than our stuff does. It matters less in raiding where there’s no timer, but in m+, higher difficulty means all the “taxes” go up. It is harder to get time on target for our single target numbers to stay good. It is increasingly necessary to have strong AOE for trash mobs. Because our AOE is centered on ourselves, and not ranged, we have to pay a tax that ranged DPS doesn’t (they have different difficulties, like getting enough time to stand still long enough to cast, etc).
So basically, they design m+ to have certain difficulties (some affixes are brutal on us), but what we are good at (melee + single target + damage over time) isn’t really designed for those difficulties. The stuff they are giving us so we remain viable in middle tiers of m+ isn’t what we really want for our concept of what we are supposed to do and for the kind of gameplay we really want. There are other threads about what options Blizzard might use to fix our situation, so I won’t get into it.
The real point is, up to a certain m+ level, you can contribute effectively and have fun. Especially if you know the mechanics, and know what to save which cooldowns for. But it is unlikely you’ll get into the highest difficulties of m+ unless you are absolutely brilliant. But even the best assassination rogues are still capped at being worst or second worst on overall DPS, and our boss damage isn’t really high enough to make up for that, and the gameplay we are forced to use to put up good numbers doesn’t always feel fun.
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Idk about sub but this is just wrong for sin. The build used for sin keys has good aoe damage if done correctly. The only thing sin really struggles on is 2 target cleave (weird for a dot spec i know)
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AOE is where sub shines, so his take is one of the strangest things I’ve ever read…
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You’re both replying to someone from September 2022. Shadowlands. Sin and Sub did not exist in keys then.
Not sure why you insist on calling it “combat.” We haven’t had “combat” spec in a while. Seen you make this reference in other threads. Just call it Outlaw. Let “combat” spec go.
Or, maybe you meant to post about WoW classic somewhere else?
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As Sin, when you reach BiS you will finally do mediocre single target and AOE in comparison to other “pure” DPS classes. Meanwhile, hybrid classes in their DPS spec make you look sad in all content. The devs are telling you to respec Combat or Sub…maybe even re-roll…it’s our fault we aren’t listening.
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Okay Karen. I call it Combat because Outlaw is cringe pirate, one-button damage profile. I suspect others call it Combat to ridicule it as well. I will continue to use whatever words I like despite you thinking you can tell me otherwise.
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