You can’t get them to grind in wow because after they do normal and have a full upgraded set of that they start wondering if it’s worth their time to do the same thing over again but slightly harder to get loot for a mythic raid they will most likely never do
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Let’s make it simple.
This is a game. There is a Final Boss. Kill the Final Boss and you win. GG.
On this game, you set your goal. Decide which of the Final Boss you want to beat. Yeah, there are Final Bosses of differing levels. Choose your level. Beat it and win it. Then GG.
If Normal Boss is your Boss, beat it then GG. Wait for the next Season.
In WoW, the standard goals are KSM, KSH for Mythic+. AoTC and CE for Raid. For PvP, set the Rating you want to achieve. There’s Leaderboards too.
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stop shilling blizzard, they are serving us the same “soup” expansion for 10 years. It’s getting old and and players are fed up with this formulaic system
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Fed up becoz they cant achieve anything… on every expansion. Maybe theyre in a wrong game.
Because a huge amount of people still falsely believe that you need full 15s to get KSM and full 20s to get KSH. I think some people also think that key seasons are the exact same difficulty that S1 is just as difficult as S4 from some of the comments I have read it seems so. Not you people, but others I have come across seem to think that stuff.
To me, in general, I find WoW as a Gen X game. It’s Grindy. Gen X are okay with them. Everyone hates Grinds. Current Grinds in Retail is softer than how it was back in Vanilla. BUt still, Gen X are okay with them.
On the other hand, Gen Z dont like grinds. There is no way to make Gen Z play the grinds in Mythic +, Raid or PvP. But there’s exception of course. There are Gen Z who can play WoW’s Pillar but they are few. In general, they hate grinds.
How can Blizz make WoW favorable to Gen Z? Delves? Storymode Raid? Follower Dungeons? Is that enough? I dunno.
Gen Z wants to abolish Mythic+, Raid and PvP. Gen X will never allow that. I think Gen Z cant be mixed with Gen X. Just keep them separated.
the war within is dead for anyone that pugs, yet still want to attain some mythic track gear.
the population of the game plummeted due to m+ changes. there has been a decrease by almost half in the amount of keys that have been run compared to even dragonflight.
group finder pugs for heroic Nerub’ar Palace AOTC and queen kills are almost non-existent. Vault, Aberrus and Amirdrassil had many groups that were pugging the last bosses at this stage of their patch compared to literally none for queen.
delves are a nice little side show for casual gearing for those that only want some champion gears with a random heroic piece each week. but provide 0 mythic track options for increased difficulties.
m+ affixes and tuning is much higher than previous seasons and on top of that you need to clear a 10 just for a mythic track vault and a minimum of a 9 to get crests to upgrade it. so that is out the window for what? 95%+ of pugs. compared to only needing a 8 for mythic vault and 6 for the crests. so that was a make players up and quit decision on blizzards part.
due to the overwhelming population decline based off of warcraft logs participation in both m+ and raids, this will make getting groups even harder on top of the aforementioned issues.
nobody wants to tank anymore. the changes that were made, while warranted, just simply made tanking significantly more unfun to play. now we are finally seeing the fruition of these decisions. blizzard failed us with the war within so hard, on every level.
where does blizzard go from here? i dunno? maybe to late and dont matter. when one quits a game like wow and starts missing this and that fomo stuff, staying away is easy. a part of me cannot help but feel that the nail blizzard has been hammering into the coffin has just took its last hit.
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Yeah, no idea what OP is on to be saying this.
Barely stepped into M+ and gearing rate has never been this fast, regardless of busted loot table from delves.
The way I see it is this.
TWW was released. In first 2 weeks, EVERYONE facerolled and disrespected Normal and Heroic Dungeons. Everybody is pulling all the mobs and nuke them like they’re nothing. TWW Dungeons seems so easy.
And Blizz saw this. I think they would feel humiliated if players would do the same on Mythic + and Raid.
So Blizz responded when they opened the Season. And people trying to be tough GOT WRECKED.
I am actually entertained. Laughing at those Tough people. ROFL.
It’s just the 3rd week and people go straight to Mythic+ levels and Heroic Raid levels that their gear cant handle.
Maybe on 20th Anniversary, Blizz would bring more gear to make Mythic+ and Raid bearable. That’s what I think. I could be wrong.
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that is what i was kinda hoping for as well. i mean, blizzard got the numbers, they see how bad of a state the game is in right now and the population decline. i can see it just from being in game. there is just this huge shadow over the game, that i have never felt or seen before.
hopefully they are doing some behind the scene work to remedy the issues that are driving people away. but it could be too little too late.
kinda exaggerating there . you can get to 2k with just doing m+4. no need to push higher than nines. doing some delves and maybe heroic raiding you are golden . i am not sure what you are talking about
Hi there, been playing 20 years now, 26 years old so I grew up on this game. I can honestly say I still enjoy the grind, and working to achieve something over a long course of time. I just got to 2k rating and will likely aim to push higher, but I do have some things to add and some things to echo. Mistcaller is not a good fight. Surgeon Stitchflesh does too much damage (the pulsing aoe from the add), and dawnbreaker is by far the easiest dungeon in the pool to the point that it’s silly. There needs to be a balancing pass made to fix the dungeon balance, and some classes definitely need some love too. I have played feral and brewmaster for years, and while I’m generally fine with being off-meta, it has made getting into any content as a feral druid a literal nightmare. The community perception plays a big role, but the classes really are just weaker than the available alternatives. I hope they can do something to address these issues, but if not, it’s not like I’ll quit. It’ll change in the future, and maybe not for the better but I’ll be around to find out regardless because it’s still something that I have a passion for. It’s really not for everybody, and the time commitment is large if you want to be considered worth your salt, but part of the fun for me is being good despite all the obstacles holding me back, like a job, real life responsibilities, and the general difficulty of current content. I love this game and will probably play it until it truly dies, which will be a very sad day for me. I don’t really know why I wrote all this, just something to do between keys I suppose 
I hope you all get what you want out of the game, but if it’s not for you, I hear there are plenty of other mmorpgs that are gaining some traction. Have a good day, and if anyone wants to run keys of any level just send me a message and we’ll knock some out, maybe brick a few, but in any case keep it real. Juggernaut#12596
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I’ve noticed similar. While I can solo lvl 10, and maybe lvl 11, delves, I have been sticking to lvl 8.
For me, it’s the odd mechanic changes on the higher ones, to where it often seems like mobs glitch, and never to my benefit.
The entirety of Ardenweald explained in one paragraph: “Everything is whimsically trying to kill you.”
I disagree. Blizzard has an ugly history of wasting YEARS of development and ending up with cancelled games. Without anyone holding their feet to the fire, game developers can spin and spin but never produce a viable game.
Even with established games like WoW, devs took years to put out an expac. The content lulls really hurt the game.
Putting short-term profit before quality is bad. But not demanding devs bring a viable game to market is also bad.
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And this is a dog water system because people just kinda sit back after doing normal modes and go “well I’ve done everything there is to do, be it on a mild difficulty but what is left that is fresh?”
Like unless you actually reallllllly want the mounts from KSM and ahead of the curb like what exactly are we really doing? There isn’t a capstone to reach for because everything has a sliding difficulty
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Unpopular opinion but the “what is left that is fresh” issue has existed ever since they neutered the amount of time it took to reach max level in a given xpac. The “leveling journey,” whether people want to admit it or not is (or was) a huge chunk of the fresh content in this game. Now, it’s blink-of-an-eye fast and all that you have left is same-old-same-old but with difficulty sliders.
These days you can walk into a full fledged free to play game and get instant pvp with little waiting and no cost up front. You can even experience full fledged mmo’s for free and pay to win in some if you want without the grind. WoW has this pay to get carried aspect but it comes with a box cost, subscription, and tons of other upsells that you’d find in a free to play game.
Why would anyone that doesn’t care about Warcraft or Blizzard buy a game they also have to pay a monthly fee for? Not to mention inflation these days and a 12 pack of coke costing nearly $10 for some reason. Add to that a younger crowd that is just getting started and those costs add up I’m sure with their limited incomes.
I’m sure one of the biggest reasons people won’t bother is the monthly subscription they don’t want to pay. Not to mention the game looks very old. I know a lot of you think it looks amazing and they’ve done a good job, but frankly this game visually is very antiquated and tech wise even more so. It needs BIG upgrades that take it up a few more notches perhaps even forcing me to upgrade my ancient cpu.
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You never tried playing this game above 40 inch Monitor on a 4K OLED with HDR on of Windows 11 at Ultra Settings. It looks amazing, crisp sharp and vivid with its rich texture and effects … 1000x better than your old standard 1080 resolution on 29 inch HD monitor like we had 15 years ago. Of course, it would look the same becoz you are still using potato monitor and potato settings from 15 years ago.
Look at the clothing textures on characters the game is ancient. They try desperately to hide it very creatively (and do an amazing job too). Seeing textures in 4k resolution on an annoyingly clear OLED doesn’t change that.
Other games have incredibly detailed clothing for instance in a game that isn’t based on a zoomed in version of the Warcraft RTS game. It has improved of course over the years to make it look more palpable but that isn’t saying much. It’s just a more HD version of itself much like the antiquated Runescape games.
The ground, the trees, the foliage, and the buildings are all pretty old and standard basic art. Hallowfall does a great job of pushing this tech in new ways to look great but it’s nothing mindblowingly next gen looking like WoW was back in the day.
The game has regressed technically from it’s bleeding edge days dramatically when it was the leader in the scene.
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