Where do people keep getting this idea that you’re locked into a covenant? They said you can change the covenants at Blizzcon if you really wanted.
Maybe there is a penalty, I don’t recall what they said about that, but they did say you can change.
They said it would be like the aldor/scryer reps from TBC.
For people with limited time and say, want to push a couple keys during the day, then raid at night, and then push for a pvp score - it’s pretty much being locked in.
It’s even more exacerbated if the player plays multiple roles across those things.
Like the OP, all for no tangible gain to those that stick with a covenant. Just negative impacts on people trying their best.
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Limited time?
Limited time has always been a factor in every game in existence. You can’t get upset just because you may not be able to play more or less than other people.
If that’s the case to make the game truly equal we need to start limiting play time.
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Here is my thing with covenants.
I want to play Kyrian. But I don’t like the ability. Infact, it’s looking like it’s mostly going to be just a PVP ability compared to the others. I want to choose the other ones.
What if it ends up really good though? or another one ends up much better for my preferred content of M+ keys and mythic raids? What then? That’s not a great place to be.
It’s not a question of meaningful choices. It’s that they decided ok, this is the system we’re going with. But the system itself is a “one size fits all” package that will have significant downsides that you can’t mitigate without the power to swap the abilities.
Had they designed it in mind with that you can swap abilities it never would have become a problem.
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This does seem like the most simple solution.
And it fits with an RP mentality - all of these covenants are relying on us to go out and kill the bad guy that’s disrupting everything.
So if you’ve studied and learned each of the abilities, why wouldn’t they want us to go to the dungeons to get the best gear - using the most ideal ability; going to arena’s to get the best gear - using the most ideal ability; going into raid to kill the bad guy - using the most ideal ability.
From a theme perspective, I guess limiting the aesthetic stuff is ok; even as a casual RP player, I don’t really care for it - but at least it’s not doing any real harm and doesn’t go against this whole “we’re heroes trying to kill a bad guy” story.
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I guess that’s the goal - to create a system with consequences and restricting choice and versatility across all the content, but without any benefit to the other side.
That’s the benefit to a lot of players on these forums - they want players to be punished and have to deal with consequences, even when they’re not necessary.
The aesthetic restrictions are whatever - but the fact that they impact players’ performance is the core of it.
It’s been pitched to be more on the permanent side than flexible side - something akin to having to regrind an exalted rep for something you may have already earned.
Basically, the community is a bunch of D&D players that want to munchkin.
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Want to munchkin? What does that mean?
Absolutely 100% minmax. Does everything for the slightest amount of power. Usually breaks the game. Usually ruins the game for normal players. DMs hate munchkins.
I’d post a link but can’t.
From TV tropes:
The Munchkin is the Tabletop RPG player who plays the game to win at any cost, even if that isn’t the point of the game. Perhaps the most ridiculed Player Archetype of all time, this player is rarely interested in the story behind the game. Indeed, his characters are little more than extensions of his own personality or whatever personality would give him the most bonuses.
In short, powergaming.
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And yet people complain about the soul of the game being gone.
That’d be the power gamers.
I played in Vanilla/TBC/and the start of WotLK. Took a break and came back in Legion.
I felt like a lot of the changes they made to the game added to the soul of the game.
I don’t understand why people are against QoL changes.
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The game would be dead without many of the qol changes. But to some extent this game was made popular because of what it was originally designed as.
That is what ion talks about. How far can they go away from what the game used to before its something else. How much can they change before this isn’t even an mmorpg anymore.
I think what made it popular, and what certainly drew me to the game, was what it was compared to other games at the time.
The old Final Fantasy MMO and Everquest were popular- but they had tons of downtime, lacked mobility, and took away xp when you died.
WoW changed that - and a move in that direction was great for the game.
Once upon a time things like the telegraph were great, compared to other means of communication. That doesn’t mean that we should start changing our devices to move towards morse-code just because it was successful at some point in the past.
This game has lots of people (MMO); and is based on fantasy where you get to cast spells and perform super-human abilities to kill monsters (RPG).
The elements required to satisfy an MMORPG aren’t drastic - nor do they need to be so restrictive and punishing.
Games like FFXIV offer lots of flexibility compared to WoW by letting you play all classes on a single character - that doesn’t mean it’s not an MMORPG or that it’s less of an MMORPG than other games in it’s genre.
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How would making covenant abilities flexible to change “invalidate” WoW as an MMORPG?
In a time of “war” against the Jailer or whoever the bad guy is - why wouldn’t each of the covenants want us, the heroes, to have the best possible gear/equipment/abilities in order to slay the bad guy that’s posing a threat to everyone?
That fits a reasonable RP narrative - similar to how military branches can/do share resources, information and even personnel when needed during a time of war.
LIke in Vietnam - the Marine Corps was happy to take people from other branches that were willing to fill certain roles without forcing them to have to start at square one in boot camp.
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From what I gather - it’s beyond not rewarding - it’s punishing for those players that are just trying to be the most valuable to their groups.
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it’s supposed to be a choice. make a choice for throughput, or personal enjoyment. don’t try to take away agency from everyone else because wow to you is a raid/arena/mythic+ simulator instead of an rpg.
agency is choice - when you restrict the covenants to a one-time choice, you’re limiting agency.
I’m in favor of increasing agency for players that want it.
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