Eh, bad counter argument…
They can ask that you to do those additional responsibilities after you’ve joined the raid groups. Even after a few weeks. That would also be tyrannical after-the-fact.
A guild can tell you they use ML up front, and that’s telling you how they are before-the-fact. Then it’s up to you to discern if you want to deal with it. Again… ML as an option, not a replacement. Don’t like dealing with those possible downsides? Then apply to a PL guild.
Tough to take the op’s complaints seriously when they boil down to “someone got something that I wanted.”
I somewhat sympathize with master looter complaints the first month into a new raid as ilvls can prevent trading of unwanted gear but it is a self correcting problem.
Personnal Loot is great for me!
There is a reason Blizzard did it, even if you do not want to admit it!
If a guild changes what it wants you to do in preparation for raid, you can just stop raiding with them and it’s no harm no foul.
You will never know if you’re about to be scammed out of loot until it happens. A loot council can be fair… until it isn’t, but it’s too late to do anything different once you’ve actually killed the boss and had the item you earned stolen from you.
We were discussing a guild being tyrannical. The point was… if you don’t like a guilds demands… then leave. If they’re tyrannical in their demands on your time… do you stay and take it?
If your bar for tyranny is “they use ML” then leave…
Your hypothetical situation doesn’t make sense… because you wouldn’t be in that situation in the first place, as you clearly don’t want to play in a ML environment.
I on the other hand… am more than willing to risk that corruption, to play in a ML environment. That is MY choice. Stop taking it from me. I’m not asking that you be forced into a ML guild… Why are you defending that I be forced into a PL guild?
Dude, the problem is that too many people would consent to a “fair loot council” but NOT consent to that loot council taking an item from them they think they deserve. Which is to say, they would raid with a guild that used ML, but don’t actually agree with ML. That’s the core problem. The tyrannical aspect is the players abusing other players’ good faith.
Personal Loot removes that ability to be a bad actor. Everyone simply stops thinking about loot and focuses on the game. It’s better for everyone except for the bad actors.
Also, it reduces support tickets that go to Blizzard, so I can’t imagine they’ll suddenly change their mind on the issue.
Indeed. As someone who has ninja looted in the past, the problem is that you never, ever know when someone will scam you until it happens. You just can’t know. People can build up a reputation as being a nice person but as soon as that 1% drop shows up they can mask off and you have absolutely no defense against it if you aren’t 100% vigilant and simply refuse to play with the loot system (which hurts you if the players has established themselves in your community, you’re shutting yourself off from content in order to not get scammed, absolutely a lose-lose scneario).
Then don’t join a ML guild. If that is a risk you’re not willing to take… don’t join a ML guild. I can’t say it enough… I’m asking for the option to risk MY time and loot. I’m not demanding that YOU be forced to risk your time and loot. You like PL, that’s great! Use PL!
I on the other hand am perfectly fine with that risk. I accept it.
I feel like this discussion is you trying to convince me that PL is better. That’s great that you like PL. I don’t. That’s fine. Different people like different things. That’s why it should be an option… Just like… flying is an option and LFR is an option.
Until Blizzard states this is true… let’s not dabble in conspiracies please… They had more than ample opportunity to provide this as a reason for ML being removed… and honestly… that’s a more than valid reason to remove it. But they’ve never stated that… they’ve only mentioned that it made loot consistent (why do this…), that it protected trials (I don’t need your protection blizz…), and that it reduced splits (it didn’t for those that did splits…).
Edit:
Maybe you’ll get it if I put it like this.
I’m saying, I would like this option because this is what I prefer. You are responding with, you shouldn’t have this option because this is what you’re risking.
No offence mate… but I’m an adult (ugh… even I just cringed saying that)… kindly butt out of my in-game decisions. I’m not asking you to make those same decisions. In fact… do NOT make those decisions.
I don’t care if you don’t like personal loot. I really really don’t. On the whole, personal loot is better for more people and reduces grief and frustration. You may not like it, but factually it is better for more people. You being forced to accept Personal Loot is better than many of us being put into situations where we have to decline playing with friends or risk having stuff stolen from us because of non-existent value-add that you believe comes from loot council. It’s simply facts.
I really, really don’t care if you think Master Loot is better. Honestly. I don’t care. Your feelings are not something I care about.
Your “in-game decisions” damage my play experience. So no.
How? Explain how they damage your in-geam decisions?
Let me guess. Because everyone used ML before and you’d be forced to use it. Provenly false with Legion MrRobot numbers… Most normal guilds used PL, half the heroic guilds used PL, and a solid chunk of the mythic guilds used PL. And that was after a single expansion of PL being a thing.
Then those same people… can keep using PL? And those of us who like ML… will use ML? How is there a lose in offering options?
The whole ‘protects trials’ thing really doesn’t make sense to me. When we interview people we ask them if they are ok with loot council for deciding any item that can be traded, if they aren’t then we respectfully inform them we aren’t they guild for them.
If they accept that, then we expect every tradable item to either be given to a loot council member for distribution, or to be traded to the correct player directly. It’s no different than master looter, it’s just infinitely more hassle and means sometimes people can’t trade stuff because of the ilvl.
If you accidentally equip it or aren’t sure, you might get a pass once, but you’re still going to be removed if you argue or insist the item is yours.
If the option exists people will abuse it.
Wow has survived just fine without master loot. Mythic bosses are dying and world first races are still occurring.
It’s not coming back.
If you’re that worried that your friends would all choose ML and then ninja your loot, you need better friends.
You haven’t even killed any Mythic bosses…why are you complaining about “gearing for progression”, rofl.
When options exist, people can choose the option that protects them from that abuse. Those of us fine with risking the abuse, would still like the option. How would offering it as an option hurt you?
If it exists people will abuse it.
It can’t be abused if it doesn’t exist.
They aren’t bringing it back.
We’ve literally already seen what Master Looter looks like. Most people don’t pay it any mind because they just want to play the game, and agree to it because someone said it is “better” for progression and don’t want to rock the boat, only for people to get bit in the butt when it’s a problem later. Most people literally just want to play the game and give the benefit of the doubt, and master loot takes advantage of those people in a malicious way.
In WoW, enjoying the game is simply playing the game and enjoying your time playing. I’m not going to use the word “should be” because the way it is is the way it is, and the way it is is the correct way of existing.
You’ve already been answered. Stop asking the question if you’re not going to acknowledge that you’ve been answered already.
And again… it’d be an option. You don’t have to partake if you don’t want to be abused.
Make no mistake, I don’t think it’s ever coming back either. I just find these threads fascinating. The level of mental gymnastics posters like Sentenza go through to validate him being able to say “You and your group of friends, who I will never meet, should play how I want you to play.”
You haven’t answered that question… How does offering it as an option hurt you? You full well have the option to not use it. Why would allowing me to use it hurt you?
That’s the closest you’ve gotten to answering that question. To which I say… wow… what a crappy friend you are… If all of your friends want something, you seem more than happy to tie their hands behind their backs so that you get your way. You really aren’t their friend if you feel that way. Most friendships do better with honesty and speaking your mind.
Answered here -
That’s the closest you’ve gotten to answering that question. To which I say… wow… what a crappy friend you are… If all of your friends want something, you seem more than happy to tie their hands behind their backs so that you get your way. You really aren’t their friend if you feel that way. Most friendships do better with honesty and speaking your mind.
It’s sorta funny cause… I can see why PL suits you. You’re more than willing to be tyrannical to your friends. No wonder you want complete control in regards to this discussion.