I really don’t want my character’s name to be associated with this game anymore.
What is wrong with you.
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No, I don’t really want to speak or come into contact with you. Please stop posting on the forum with your Mary Sue RP. Thanks! ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
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Ok. First of all calm down. Yes, Vienel was needlessly aggressive, but that does not justify the same behavior in return.
Secondly you can not use your own assumption as proof of your statement. Its a logical falacy. Saying they dont know what ‘Mary Sue’ is, and then injecting your own definition is what I am talking about.
Thirdly, Perfectia possesses many, many, many traits of a Mary Sue character. (And no it has nothing to do with any sort of women’s movement. The male version of a Mary Sue is a Gary Stu. Gender is not part of it.)
According to TV Tropes (which they do not claim to define what a ‘Mary Sue’ is, just give the most popular examples. I would link, but I’m blocked >.>), Perfectia hits on ‘cool/exotic name’, ‘skills rare or non-existent in the canon setting’ (summoning a spectral Ashbringing and possessing part of the soul of a canonical legend), ‘especially close relationship with a main canonical character’ (love interest of Anduin), and ‘lacks and realistic, or at least story-relevant character flaws or if so, those flaws are meant to be endearing’. Perfectia hits on a lot more, those are just a few I grabbed from the list.
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Mary Sue is originally from Star Trek (OS) fan fiction, and thus really, really old lingo.
I enjoy when people write, be creative, and express themselves…even when things aren’t quite my cup of tea, it’s cool to see what other people come up with. Saying that, it’s pretty disheartening when someone gets trashed in their own thread. A really lousy thing to do, in my opinion. ![:frowning_face:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/frowning_face.png?v=6" ":frowning_face:")
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My apoligies, as that is not my intention. They appear to be lashing out because they dont understand why their character is being called a Mary Sue so I was pointing out particular things.
My apoligies to you as well Perfectia, if it came across as an attack. I don’t like your writing, but your never wrong for writing your own story.
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I really appreciate the advice but I’ve never actually RP with anyone, nor have I found any of the RPer’s literature interesting.
Actually, that’s not entirely true. I used to make Facebook pages of fictional characters and write on people’s wall of what we thought those fictional characters would do or say to each other.
WoW RPer’s, I will only say it’s not something I’m interested in reading.
I really like the writing prompts people post and every now and then I will get feedback on my fan fiction, but saying, “Don’t, because those are the rules I just made up.” Makes me more than a little angry, it only makes me want to write more, and keep pushing the boundaries.
I know that Perfectia is strong for a common adventure, but she is far from a Captain Marvel. She gets hurt, she loses, fails, and needs help more often then not. A lot of time from major lore characters that I would think would help her.
I know this is a long time ago but I was wondering because it’s been a long time, but how far have you gotten in this story?
Because the love interest with Anduin doesn’t come until WAY later. So that made me think that maybe you read past chapter 20. Or maybe you didn’t and you just heard about what I was writing and you haven’t touched it in the two months I posted it and that’s fine too.
If that’s the case how far did you get when you read it the first time. How much did you know before you started reading.
I’d like to think that things have died down for me a bit so I wouldn’t be trolled for asking for some feedback.
Also the people that may have actually liked what I wrote might not get trolled if they do give me some positive feedback.
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b i g y i k e s
Please for the sake of everyone and yourself, never ever say something this stupid ever ever ever again.
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Well, she’s the declared Highlord of the Silver Hand, she wields not one, but SEVEN Ashbringers, she’s locking lips with King Anduin Wrynn while simultaneously being besties with Warchief Sylvanas Windrunner, so I guess factions don’t apply to her.
And that’s just the most basic level.
No, the term Mary Sue originates from a Star Trek parody satirizing the unrealistic and basically flawless characters written in fanfiction - the character’s name was Mary Sue. All of this, mind you, was written by a woman. It’s intent was never to disempower women - it was to disempower poor characters.
Yeah but like, you’ve clearly sculpted her to your own vision of the female body - basically a skeleton in a tube top with a big booty, even though physically her proportions would probably be largely off and she would just be emaciated as a whole. Plus, her appearance isn’t what all the criticism stems from.
A lot of it’s probably from the gruesome detail you’ve decided to go into about her crapping the bed. Probably a thinly veiled fetish.
Weird that her parents named her with such a catty moral. My character’s name is Ben because it entails that I like the name Ben.
You’re not actually comparing Perfectia Dawnlight to Precious of all things, are you? Precious is a story about a young abused teenager rising above adversity to gain a better life. Perfectia Dawnlight is a fanfiction that treads the line between fulfillment and fetishism.
Besides, her name isn’t literally just “Precious” - it’s Claireece, Precious is her middle name. You’ve opted to name your character Perfect.
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I feel at this point its best to just report for the necro bump and move on. This seems like an attempt to just garner attention.
(Edit, also possible harassment given how they replied to one particular individual to necro the thread in the first place)
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Let me be 100% honest, even without going into great detail regarding the quality of the writing here, you’re going to have a super hard time getting people to take you seriously when you insist on crafting a character that has a romance arc with a major lore figure and who goes around with a name like “Perfectia.”
Perfectia is the kind of name I would expect to see in a satire, probably one criticizing the tropes of common fantasy protagonists. But even then, you’d need a rather thick layer of silliness on top of that, because Game of Thrones had been tackling the hero worship trope for over a decade and its grimdark nature is decidedly not one that paints it as a satire. So you’d need to be both subversive and comical, maybe like something you’d see run in the old “funnies” pages of your newspaper subscriptions.
The point is, there is absolutely no version of fantasy literature where I can both accept the name of the protagonist as “Perfectia” and take the subject matter seriously.
In addition, based on the comments you’ve received thus far, I would highly recommend you take a look at the surrounding criticism and discourse related to the book “Empress Theresa,” which stands as one of the worst pieces of literature ever written yet is possibly also one of the best cautionary tales of what happens when you go full Mary Sue. There are elements here that are already starting to go down that road.
Finally, you are of course going to run into major pushback when your audience has their own personal version of the subject matter. Everyone who was subscribed during Legion and who played a paladin has become the highlord. Now, obviously that’s impossible for everyone to be Highlord in canon, so there’s more or less an unspoken rule that we just keep it as headcanon for our own playthroughs. The canon is that the highlord post-Tirion’s death is an ambiguous individual, and it’s probably best that no effort be undertaken to define the specifics of who that individual is. A paladin in the service of the Silver Hand during the events of Legion and beyond is an interesting story angle for an OC, but outright naming her Highlord is way too much to swallow. It would be akin to a character coming out of nowhere and claiming the right of Guardian of Tirisfal, and we’ve been down that road before to… controversial destinations.
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I swear, I meant to bring Empress Theresa up in my criticism. It’s definitely reminiscent of that in terms of a male writer writing a female character.
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I’m going to write this for a few reasons and I would like to make a few things clear. I’m doing this out of a personal entertainment, the writing, the responding to trolls, the people telling me that my statements lack correct specific detailed research and they would be right. A lot of things I’ve said up top were simply out of anger to defend the character I created. Which I may have been doing out of a personal vanity project and power fantasy.
Personally this writing has let me explore a feminine side of myself that I can’t really express in my personal life. I’ve always wanted to belly dance but I can’t for social stigma reasons.
I would like to defend this character from all the statements that were made above and maybe I will, but right now this thing I’m writing right now could be for the trolls above or to a personal note to myself that I’m not going to stop doing what makes me feel good or bad.
I came back onto this site so I can read the Happy Birthday chapter, because it makes me feel a certain way. I like the things I’ve written and the way I feel when I reread them.
But I would ask anyone to have a tiniest bit of empathy and ask yourself, “If you spent hours working on something whether it be a car, a dress, a painting, or piece of writing and people acted like this to you.” - …Well there I go playing the victim card.
It’s been entertaining none the less. You people are awesome, stay trolling.
Okay, first of all, I really don’t think you understand the difference between someone trolling and someone criticizing. I have an unfortunate truth for you - if you put your work online, it’s open to criticism, not all of it is trolling. In fact, in this thread I see nobody who has actually trolled you above a shocked reaction, so I would suggest you get yourself a thicker skin - especially if you’re going to put your objectified self-insert fanfiction online, even if it was good. And I assure you, it is not good.
Now you yourself have just admitted that you created Perfectia out of a “personal vanity project and power fantasy.” Which is fine, plenty of people RP out a personal fantasy in RP. But what you’ve written has displayed such a blatant misunderstanding of female characters, and femininity as a whole, through this exaggerated and overly sexualized mess of a character. That is where much of the criticism stems from, at least from my interpretation.
If you like the things you’ve written, great, I’m happy for you. But you made a conscious decision to post it online for all to see. Nobody forced you to share Perfectia with us, she could have been all yours. You do not get to whine about people reacting poorly to your story when you make that choice, especially when much of it is real criticism and Perfectia is such an insulting caricature of a woman. Your victim card is denied.
Perfectia does not magically become immune to criticism because she’s your outlet. Get over yourself.
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I have and do spend literal hours working on things only for people to come up to me and tell me what they do and do not like about it. If it’s trash, they tell me so. If it’s good, I get a pat on the back and so forth.
If a lot of people are telling you that your stuff isn’t worth reading, maybe it would be wise to consider that they’re telling you the truth from the goodness of their hearts and not because they’re malicious in any way, shape, or form.
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Yeah I know. I was taking a lot of inspiration from Quentin Tarantino when I started writing this. Which is why the first few chapters are a collection of loosely collected characters short stories that are not in a specific order, but send me a link me of some of your writings that you would like to share, I could only learn I suppose.
Right now I’ve been reading Infinite Jest, I kinda like the authors first person style and I’m probably not going to start writing again until I finish it. (Guess responding to comments still counts as writing)
I suppose I’ll rewrite this and completely agree that my writing is bad, but right now it’s a little hard because, unfortunately, it’s the best of my ability.
Also, responding to criticism is kinda fun, even though sometimes I’ll admit that I sometimes act like a a–.
I was going to write some kind of response to this when I saw you replied to my comment directly but I think Grandblade hits most of the points on their head. Let me just say the following about this bit;
There are things I’ve written in the past that are just for me. Be they personal stories about characters I’m not ready to share, subject matter that I’m not sure is appropriate for mediums in question, or just simple journal entries about IRL stuff that I write for catharsis. Pieces of writing that are for personal use only are probably the only examples that, I would argue, are immune from criticism.
You, however, have chosen to post fanfiction on a site utilized by a community. In so doing, you are stepping into a pre-existing discourse and attempting to offer your own voice to it. That’s great; I would highly encourage anyone interested in becoming a writer to put themselves out there as much as possible and get the practice they need, even if that involves FanFiction.
But you don’t get to do that and also claim that any response, no matter how harsh, is trolling. You can be the greatest writer in the world and there will still be someone who thinks your writing is absolute schlock. That doesn’t mean you dismiss everything, but rather that you acknowledge there’s always going to be room for improvement, your audience’s reaction is going to vary in both tone and magnitude, and that you have to take most of what you get on the chin. If an audience’s opinions are too much to handle, I would recommend just not having an audience at all.
However, as I’m writing this, I see you have responded again. And I appreciate your statement here;
That’s fine to acknowledge, and I hope the lesson you’re taking away isn’t to just give up. Take much of the criticism you’ve been given at face value and try to improve. I’m a bit new to this subforum, but if I, for one, continue to see you post stories here, I’ll do my best to give you my honest opinions and suggestions on how it can improve. As long as you can recognize that there’s no malice on my part when I, or anyone else here, does so.
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