I keep seeing people saying things like “M+ Is bad for WoW because it enforces min max culture.” But this puts the cart before the horse. Gamers enforce min max culture regardless of difficulty level.
If you don’t believe me log into classic WoW where you will find people spending hours every day gathering materials and buffs to clear content that can be one shot by a guild of 50 year drunk divorced dads. Entire classes are rejected from pugging. Logs are pulled for content thats so easy that half the raid is popping ambien and gambling during encounters.
What it really comes down to is ego and selfishness. People see a difficulty ladder that they aren’t immediately at the top of and just want it removed rather than just accept that they’re not always going to be doing the hardest difficulty on the ladder.
If you want to play retail and just chill in dungeons with your buddies you can do heroics, normals, time walking, even low end mythics. There’s a game mode just for you. Why can’t you just do that rather than calling for purging a game mode that other people enjoy?
I have never asked for content to be removed. But people have flat out ask for the content and things I can do in game to be removed. Delves and static flying. I play strictly solo. People want to play group content go for it.
Both group and solo endgame can exist. People just need to let it.
I don’t understand the thought process of wanting other content removed myself. TWW imo has done a wonderful job of catering to any group of people. Raiding, M+, Delves, PvP, Pet Battles, etc…
Because it’s not content some people like to do or engage in, I suppose. I enjoy challenging content. I do however not enjoy playing in groups because I am losing my eyesight and will fail to see mechanics.
That’s not against others. I just don’t want to spoil someone else’s game time with my difficulties so I just play solo.
People want Mythic+ removed for the same reason they want cancer removed. When cancer cells multiply they don’t care what they are doing to the rest of the body, they just want to breed. Mythic+ has kinda felt like this narc game mode where the only thing to do at end game was Mythic+ if you didn’t like raiding… and so many gameplay elements had to change to fuel it’s narcissism. I don’t want Mythic+ removed, I just don’t want it to operate in the game like it’s a cancer. It might seem like an exaggeration to call it cancer, but I don’t think so- as that literally is how real cancer works.
And people who aren’t chasing the top of the ladder are the ones that have the egos? Interesting. I think maybe people who do super high content have such big egos they think people are jealous of them when they aren’t, they just don’t want the entire game to be The Idea of Mythic+ and nothing else. Like some narc campy Saturday Day Morning cartoon villain where it only ever sees itself and nothing else…
I dont see the people chasing the top of the ladder here calling for other content to be removed. Saying “if you dont play like me you should quit”. Or that some other game mode is on par with killing people and tearing families apart.
No one is talking about you being jealous, you’re projecting.
Trying to unironically compare M+ to literal cancer makes you sound ridiculous and you should reconsider this analogy. Especially since you never actually explained your point beyond vague gesturing of “its a narc game mode” (??)
There are more end game avenues than ever before and M+ is just one of them. I don’t understand why so many of you act like you’re being compelled to complete M+12 keys, you can still just raid log like you did before M+ came out. You can go do delves.
All of that aside, you still didn’t explain how removing M+ = more end game content
Here’s the thing - those who don’t want M+ do NOT want it to be about ego and selfishness. In fact, they’re tired of that attitude dominating the game. Most have probably left the game entirely, to tell the truth. Because at this point, it’s either join in the ladder grind or get out entirely.
Were you around for Vanilla WoW? I get the impression you weren’t.
But this is the thing that really illustrates the difference between Vanilla & Classic - the community treats the game in a DRAMATICALLY different way. Most players were having aimless fun during Vanilla, they didn’t understand the game aside from the vaguest of end objectives, so it was a largely organic and experimental experience.
… come to think of it, when developers were disappointed that only ~1% of players (well, can’t recall exactly, but it was a single-digit quantity) did the original Naxxramas, that should have been a giant red flag that hardcore sweaty content wasn’t what players were actually interested in at the time.
Most of those are dead or ruined by people speed-running the content.
Therefore, the “game mode” they’re looking for doesn’t exist in WoW.
Or at least, not anymore.
The desire to remove Mythic+ from the game is more… “emblematic” than anything. The real issues run much deeper than that, in that the game is steered towards a design philosophy that they don’t like.
These are players who legitimately don’t want to bother with min/maxing nor be expected to playing anything optimal; they want a more relaxing experience that’s open to free-form playstyles, and something that doesn’t mind when things don’t go perfectly. It’s an aspect of WoW’s culture they’ve come to despise, and Mythic+ is both representative and encouraging playstyles they don’t want. But, being entirely honest, this isn’t going to happen without a complete changing of the guard at Blizzard.
They’re probably better off quitting the game entirely, because the only way Blizz is going to listen is for them to vote with their wallets and stop paying for the continuation of content they don’t want.
I agree thta it was a good addition but should it have become the entire core around which gearing works? It’s kind of repetivie treadwheel. You need higher gear to do higher M+ to get higher gear.
You completely missed the point. Yes, back in vanilla 2004 people didn’t min max the game, today in 2024 in classic they do. What does that tell you? Is it the content or the community driving the culture? The content didnt change so think real hard about it for a minute.
Again, like I said. If you want to play a made up spec that doesn’t do damage you are completely free to do that, you can do queued content, you can do solo content. But you’re never going to get into end game content, no matter how baby brained they make it. There will always be a meta and modern gaming culture will select for that. They do it in classic, they do it in retail, it happens in every game. Removing M+ won’t make it 2004 again.
Also, regardless of what you say, LFR and heroics are still full of people ignoring mechanics and getting lost. They can still play the game.