Given that most of the suggestions for “Let’s make the Alliance more morally grey/darker” tend to be along the lines of “Let’s have them massacre Thunderbluff!”, I think OP is about 90% correct.
2 Likes
That is a good point.
The opposition in this argument shouldn’t be decided the parameters of how the alliance gets to be morally grey.
Massacring Thunderbluff does not but take the part of the Horde whose leadership has been an ally and friend and remove it, essentially destroying the only real link to a peace so that they can turn their murder blight machines to 21 and have an excuse to Deus Blight the Alliance, when from a META perspective, they’re throwing away a part of the faction they don’t actually care about and need a flimsy sass reason to justify killing alliance.
1 Like
I know you don’t play Horde, but trust me, from a Horde player’s perspective, it’s a rehash. It may not end the exact same way, but so far, the story beats–which take up months of real time, don’t forget–feel extremely familiar.
5 Likes
I thought the bits we’ve seen in the Voldun incursion with the Vulpera are reasonably good for being morally grey, sans the ‘Are they actually burning cowering Vulpera to death’.
Going after a mostly neutral party who happen to be helping the Horde out strictly via trade, and burning their supplies and wagons to keep them from doing so is morally grey.
I didn’t want to say too much on this topic, as I realize I am a Horde player, and thus what I want from the Alliance is probably different from what Alliance players want.
Still, the reason why I’d like a darker Alliance is mainly for the protagonist/antagonist relationship between the two factions. The Horde and Alliance have always been enemies and always will be. No matter what happens in the story, WoW will always have that conflict. At least, that’s what I expect from Blizzard.
However, throughout WoW’s life, the narrative has failed time and time again to actually portray the Alliance as a proper antagonist to the Horde. The Alliance doesn’t feel like an enemy even when I’m told they are.
For that, I believe the Alliance would have to darken a bit. While, at the same time, the Horde needs to lighten. I’m fine with the Horde still being darker. But the gap between the two definitely needs to shrink.
I can back this up. He doesn’t even bleed red. In fact, I’m not too sure if he even has blood.
3 Likes
I play a Goblin Warlock and a Nightborne Hunter. Not my main, but I do play Horde to better experience the story.
I don’t think Sylvanas is anything like Garrosh.
You know what I think would have been interesting? If she’d done the Thrall thing, appointed a successor (or at least an acting successor), and gone off to do her own things in secret. And we had questlines trying to figure out what she was up to. Even if it turned out she was joining forces with N’Zoth, it wouldn’t feel like the entire Horde had to be dragged into the depths along with her.
Also, I’m mystified at how you can think an evil Horde is not overdone, considering that it was in the RTS games too.
3 Likes
That wouldn’t make much sense. The Horde is now a resource to her. She is going to use it to accomplish her goals.
I don’t really know why this is a big deal… Choose Saurfang. It seems like Horde players care more about feel good moments than they do about a story being interesting.
I feel like, if Horde players were tasked with writing a story, it would just be dull wish fulfillment.
Aside from Warcraft 3… And honestly, Vanilla-Wrath, when the Horde wasn’t obviously evil, I feel like they were the most boring. I mained an Orc in Vanilla, then switched to Night Elves, because the Horde seemed… lame.
Aren’t you basically implying that you don’t know why it’s a big deal that horde players don’t like being a part of Teldrassil burning?
6 Likes
You have a choice to not be apart of Teldrassil’s burning.
That’s not the way I ever interpreted WoW’s questing. The game has to assume you’ve been a part of these story beats whether you do the quests or not, because time effectively freezes if you don’t advance the story. I could have quit the game between Legion and this moment and my character would still be involved in it.
The only reason why new characters don’t go through the Teldrassil stuff now is because Blizzard likes removing this stuff later on to string along subscribers.
4 Likes
But that’s not true. You can decide not to continue a Quest chain. You can decide what your character is an is not involved in. It is impossible for your character to be involved in every quest chain, as that would require you to be in multiple places at once. So, you could very easily say your character was not involved in the War of Thorns at all.
And you can still choose Saurfang.
How I RP my character’s involvement is irrelevant. Just by being level 111 as a horde character, my character deserves to be hanged alongside both Sylvanas and Saurfang.
4 Likes
Saying you have the choice to not do something by not playing the game is not a good answer. Fundamentally terrible, in fact.
13 Likes
I would argue a level 110 Horde deserves to hang as well. But w/e. How you choose to RP your character is the only thing that is relevant.
I’m not suggesting to not play the game. I’m suggesting to not participate in things that he finds morally reprehensible. At least from an IC standpoint.
And that is something someone can do IC.
But it doesn’t change that to actually play the game you are required to go along with Sylvanas, at least up until now.
1 Like
No you’re not. You can choose Saurfang. Or you can play Alliance.
If you played SWTOR, it would be the same thing. If you don’t want to be evil, don’t play Sith.
But there was no Saurfang option pre-8.1. That’s the problem. And only having that option now makes the whole thing feel fake.
2 Likes
Why does it feel fake?
It’s funny you ask that, because every time I try to type, I have a hard time trying to solidify a reason. I know “it just does” is a cop-out response and not something that can be debated with. I’ll have to think on it some more.
But it makes me resentful of the fact that such an option wasn’t present for something way worse than just letting Saurfang being captured. It gives the impression that the War of Thorns was somehow not enough to warrant such a question, and taints the decisions that do occur with “well you were okay with Teldrassil, so why is this the straw that breaks your back?”
When I say I feel like my character deserves to be hanged, I don’t mean by the alliance. I mean by what the horde should have been after SoO.
4 Likes