Nah not really. I find myself doing that as well if I’m bored. My group tend to invite lowbies as well at the end of the season for a free carry when we’re not pushing anymore
I mean why have all this great gear if I can’t go into something low and just destroy it for fun while the lowbie dps can dork around? 
Making max vault a 20 was part of the problem imop. People would happily stay in lower keys just to get their vault reward
that, and low keys are near worthless if they did high end the season before.
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You know you can always just do +16 and still get mythic track reward right? You dont have to do +20
I thought it was a 17…but that may have been what you needed for hero track drops when still gearing. I joined this season late.
nah +16 vault reward you get mythic track but doing +17 gives you hero track at the end of the dungeon
I’m not talking exclusively about making your groups. When you join someone else’s group you have agency in that too. You do your due diligence and communicate with the party to assess if the activity is worth the time.
The following person speaks from the perspective of the group leader, but as an invitee you can also make your own judgements.
Yes, a lot of these problems go away when you have a consistent group to play with. M+ (and raiding) is an activity that is harder when you don’t have good communication and when not everyone has the same goals. When the expectations and the outcomes differ, its normal that people will want to leave the activity. That’s just the risk of pugging challenging content. If there was some sort random queue/matchmaking system, then that’s a whole different discussion.
The “problem” is that people can’t handle failure and have this delusion that a system that punishes leavers will lead to a better experience and community. As it has been brought up before, any system that punishes people will just have unintended inconveniences or be used by used by malicious actors to grief. Keeping people hostage in activities where they no longer want to be in does not help anyone. At the end of the day, there will always be bad eggs and situations that end in failure, but if you focus on punishments, then there will just be less people to play with overall and no one really learns anything.
You’re entitled to your opinions, but your suggestions are not leading towards a better experience and community, its just about providing vindication for the people affected by key leavers. Again, focus on systems that incentivize good outcomes rather than punish bad ones. Punishments don’t change behavior long-term and don’t really lead the perpetrator nor the victims to grow.
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I had hoped this tier would incentivize finishing because at least completion grants some amount of currency, but it seems that small carrot is not enough. People are there to hunt for score, and the breakpoint keys are the absolute worst for leavers.
I wonder if they could implement some kind of score penalty system. Like, sure you can leave your M+ run, sure you can DC in the last 5 minutes – but for fully 24 hours, you cannot set foot in another M+. Account wide.
A voting feature would inevitably be used to hold people hostage. I realize some means of agreement should be in place, but hostage taking won’t help. Perhaps a voting system for the remaining folks who DIDN’T leave, whether the leaver should be subject to the full punishment duration for their behavior…
And of course, for all parties agreeing to end a key prematurely, everyone in the group must be zoned out of the dungeon in order for group disbanding not to count as leaving.
Too harsh?
i actually did not know this i retract my statement
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+20 will give you the max ilvl definitely. But +16 will give you mythic track gear which you can upgrade to max ilvl w/ crest.
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This ^^^^ is unfortunately not discussed NEARLY enough in these crying threads about people leaving pug groups
Why do people leave random/pug groups? Bad players is almost always the answer regardless of if we’re talking PvE or PvP
Do something about the bad/underperforming players in group content, and the incidence of leavers will be greatly reduced. It’s so simple…
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in unrated skirmishes and bg, if you leave you get a deserter buff. theres no rating or mmr to lose. if you leave dungeon finder you get a debuff also, why is m+ an exception when theres more at stake?
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tried it once. never again.
no. nope. not a chance
Yeah, man. Eat that verbal abuse, because if you leave you can’t do anymore keys for 24 hours.
Queue and queue.
Queue.
Premade, not a queue.
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you get a debuff for leaving premade 2s/3s and rbgs
The groups are individually premade, and then what do you do with your group once it’s formed? Queue? Queue.
So then address it, eg; pull your weight. Nobody’s interested in you crying here.
Its simple. Add a vote feature that allows 3 out of 5 people agreeing to end the run. It can be initiated only once every 3 to 5 minutes and is anonymous on who initiated it.
If someone leaves before there are 3 or 4 total boss wipes registered and no vote was passed, give them a deserter debuff that stops them from applying to premade groups or messaging the leaders of them for 30 minutes.
We have it for pvp, which is a group activity that involves people also relying on other people. We also have it for LFG dungeon ques.
It’s really not so egregious to think we could also have it for a pre made group with a voting system and as a backup 3 or more BOSS wipes and you could leave without penalty. It’s fair to expect people to finish a dungeon but unfair to expect them to be stuck in one for hours beating their head against a wall.
People peave because they don’t want their IO records “tarnished” for future invites.
Well, if you do something similar to the abov3 everyone basically would have unavoidable losses on their record and maybe group leaders would stop holding 1 or 2 losses in an entire season against someone for invites.
My own personal thoughts. I’ve actually stopped doing most group content lately because of how toxic it is for all 3 end game pillars. I used to push myself for 3 or more ksm toons per season, but no more.
I’m sure the people who enjoy leaving will disagree.
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